What size account to start with?

This is a discussion on What size account to start with? within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; It's the entry that is definative. A stop defines face value risk and a negative exit/reward. Where does that leave ...

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Old Apr 18, 2008, 6:54pm   #29
Joined Feb 2007
It's the entry that is definative. A stop defines face value risk and a negative exit/reward. Where does that leave the positive exit?

Stops are an exit, is it important that they are kept from being hit? The aim of a good entry is to avoid the stop....no?

So you need to hit the positive exit, but where is it? And more importantly, is it realistic in terms of your entry price, yes, your entry price, not your mathamatical ratio you've made up as 2:1 or 3:1 R:R. ( Christ! what about the 'No Stop' lot)

So the whole trade is hinged around the bloody entry!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Paul71; Apr 18, 2008 at 7:12pm.
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 9:25pm   #30
Joined Oct 2006
Mp -- Perhaps Theres Another Way Of Saying It !

OK, heres how this humble trader partakes of this great game ----

what youre telling me is THEORY, and what im talking about is REALITY --

OFTEN, we miss the beginning of a trade, for anyone of uncountable reasons, BUT IF WE ARE IN THE TRADE, then the EXIT is the ONLY thing of IMPORTANCE TO US !

If we enter at the ABSOLUTE PERFECT POINT, then the EXIT is STILL OF MAXIMUM IMPORTANCE TO US.

given that in BOTH these situations, the EXIT is always considered impt and that the ENTRANCE CAN BE CORRECT OR NOT "CORRECT", it is obvious, by definition, that the EXIT is more important, since it serves both types of entries !

ANY method of trading which uses stops or voodoo to exit is simply intensely foolish to me, and to that end i once set up a $250 demo for a group i was teaching --- the purpose being to show what one could earn with that small an equity stake.

While i was proud of the increases made, what one member pointed out was that EACH AND EVERY EXIT i made was EXACTLY at the point the currency reversed and moved away from its prior trend. To use a stop, which could give away ANY number of earned pips is sacrilage to me --- to use an ma cross, which always gives away profit, is sacrilage to me --- to do anything that DOES NOT NAIL THE EXACT PRICE is sacrilage to me !

BECAUSE I AM A TRADER, and years it is to have earned that title, and if i cant tell where a price is going, in any timeframe, then i do not deserve the title !

I DO NOT use STOPLOSSES, WHICH I DO NOT ADVISE NEWBS TO TRY, so i never get "stopped" out of a trade and consider that my profit point ---- I place my tp and often simply go to sleep, waking in the morning with my profit !

what youre telling me is you DONT KNOW HOW to figure the PERFECT tp point and therefore CANT DO IT, so you count on a stop loss (which can lose you an awful lot on the exit point) to get you out of a trade !

THAT IS SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME AND THE ONES WHO TRADE WITH ME !

enjoy and learn well

mp
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 9:49pm   #31
Joined Feb 2007
What is the 'begining' of a trade, that you may miss, for all sorts of reasons....taking the dog out, taxing the car, unblocking the sink,...all this going on at the begining of a trade?

Have you ever missed a trade whilst mowing the lawn? (that's not metaphor, by the way, i don't mean to be rude)

Are all your orders, manual market?
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 10:05pm   #32
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Paul71 View Post
What is the 'begining' of a trade, that you may miss, for all sorts of reasons....taking the dog out, taxing the car, unblocking the sink,...all this going on at the begining of a trade?

Have you ever missed a trade whilst mowing the lawn? (that's not metaphor, by the way, i don't mean to be rude)

Are all your orders, manual market?
================================================== ==========

Ive prob had em all, but not yet the Nuclear explosion --- THAT would get my attention !

treat each "arrow" as the "optimum" or "perfect" entry point !

all my orders are manual, with a lot at market, but not the exits --- those are almost always "limit orders", although i may exit a trade manually for some reason, but NEVER where i wouldnt place a limit order (i often place a limit order, especially after 5pm edt here in the states, WELL BELOW my actual tp point --- if the mm is gonna "headfake" me, then i can return the favor --- unfortunately i have to exit manually or lose the exit !)

mp
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 10:19pm   #33
Joined Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by mp6140 View Post
================================================== ==========

Ive prob had em all, but not yet the Nuclear explosion --- THAT would get my attention !

treat each "arrow" as the "optimum" or "perfect" entry point !

all my orders are manual, with a lot at market, but not the exits --- those are almost always "limit orders", although i may exit a trade manually for some reason, but NEVER where i wouldnt place a limit order (i often place a limit order, especially after 5pm edt here in the states, WELL BELOW my actual tp point --- if the mm is gonna "headfake" me, then i can return the favor --- unfortunately i have to exit manually or lose the exit !)

mp

Ok, ok, ok. I can't see any of this 'really' benefitting myself. Let's call it a draw. No more for me, and hopefully we can still be ammicable?

What says you, Mp?
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 10:37pm   #34
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Paul71 View Post
Ok, ok, ok. I can't see any of this 'really' benefitting myself. Let's call it a draw. No more for me, and hopefully we can still be ammicable?

What says you, Mp?
================================================== ===============

paul ----- bobala !

i was just entering into a theoretical discussion --- who knows, next week i might take the opposite side to what i took this time !

exits are where the profit lives or is lost, imho --- but its of no real matter this way or that, as long as i simply trade and can afford the many sister acts i require for my health during the week !

now, why does it not affect you ---- you one of those one minute chart flippers ?

LOL

mp
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 11:01pm   #35
Joined Feb 2007
Mp,

1min, 15min or 1hr....it doesn't matter, It's all about seeing value (cheesey or what). If a trader can't see it (value) sub 5 mins, it doesn't mean that they are a dunce or a bit slow, it just means that they are not as talented or as natural at spotting value within the market at that TF, as the other trader may be.

Here's the crazy bit...

There are 'non intraday' traders on here who openly 'rubbish' BO strats, and yet, their style and TF is dependant on price breaking into and out of multiple critical prices and 'zones'.

But still, it's a laff.

Goodnight, Mp.
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