What size account to start with?

This is a discussion on What size account to start with? within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; ALoha harrymonk, I think me and you can have alot to talk about as you seem kinda similar to me, ...

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Old Apr 18, 2008, 2:03pm   #22
Joined Feb 2008
ALoha harrymonk,

I think me and you can have alot to talk about as you seem kinda similar to me, although your slightly richer than me, but my demo trading is quite alot more sucessful thn yours.


Im only demoing too at mo, trying to get a job in a firm so can trade with their money instead, as i lost about £1000 creditcard money in 3weeks when i 1st started spread betting 3months ago.


I gtg in rush but send me msg if you want to chat more or talk on msn
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 3:22pm   #23
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Paul71 View Post
How can exits be more important than entries? You can't exit if you have not entered!?
================================================== =================

hey paul

in any trade there is an "optimum" entry point -- usually a retrace from support and resistance and while its really "grand" to get in at the first pip, it is certainly not necessary when were talking about a move on anything over a 5 min chart.

BUT, if you miss your exit point, you CAN spin off into the heavens, and that point might not be hit again that day, week or month !

In this way, during the move, one can enter ANYWHERE they wish, but if you dont get out when you HAVE to get out, you be in trouble !

mp
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 5:36pm   #24
Joined Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by mp6140 View Post
================================================== =================

hey paul

in any trade there is an "optimum" entry point -- usually a retrace from support and resistance and while its really "grand" to get in at the first pip, it is certainly not necessary when were talking about a move on anything over a 5 min chart.

BUT, if you miss your exit point, you CAN spin off into the heavens, and that point might not be hit again that day, week or month !

In this way, during the move, one can enter ANYWHERE they wish, but if you dont get out when you HAVE to get out, you be in trouble !

mp

Hi MP.

I understand what you are saying (i think), but to me it all sounds a bit sloppy, i'm not saying that you are a sloppy trader, i just feel that you are bending your arguement to fit the 'exits are more important' theory.

The 'exits are more important' team seem to use all kinds of theory to back up their views. The reality of a trade is the entry, everything else is just probable. So, the better the entry the better the probability and profitability, and if a trader has trouble finding or recognising a high probability entry then how can they argue about exits as being the most important?

Nothing personal meant here Mp, just a conflict of ideologies i suppose.
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 5:58pm   #25
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Paul71 View Post
Hi MP.

I understand what you are saying (i think), but to me it all sounds a bit sloppy, i'm not saying that you are a sloppy trader, i just feel that you are bending your arguement to fit the 'exits are more important' theory.

The 'exits are more important' team seem to use all kinds of theory to back up their views. The reality of a trade is the entry, everything else is just probable. So, the better the entry the better the probability and profitability, and if a trader has trouble finding or recognising a high probability entry then how can they argue about exits as being the most important?

Nothing personal meant here Mp, just a conflict of ideologies i suppose.
================================================== =

NOTHING taken paul --- perhaps i can explain better.

if we imagine a short entry presents itself on the H1 chart
, towards the end of the evening (these, and the H4 charts are how i trade while i sleep -- i just enter a trade and leave it with my set tp points)

but anyway, weve seen what appears to be a great short trade, but 2 sisters of stunning proportions and looks barge into your home (we shall assume youre single for the moment) and DISTRACT you completely from your trading !

ok, youre not single, but your wife had to go to Quatamala to help her older sister develop a banana plantation, leaving you alone and lonely for a few years !

so a few hours later, perhaps a tad tired, they leave and you notice the trade YOU HAVENT TAKEN YET !

OMG says you, and peering at the chart you see theres still 35 pips to go before support, so you ENTER, even though its a few hours "late" for the "optimum" point !

assuming youve followed my instructions and are using the s+r overlays and your fibs, and taking into consideration the price action that has gone before, you SET YOUR TP and seek the comfort of your own bed, now solitary !

waking in the morning, a rested and new man, you take a look at your SHORT position and low and behold, you HIT THE TP right at the reversal point !!

CONGRATULATIONS BIG GUY --- youre a hell of a good trader !!!!

AND IT DIDNT MATTER WHERE YOU ENTERED !!!


SEE WHAT I MEAN !

mp
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 6:18pm   #26
 
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Is it really so hard to understand that the entries and exits are of equal importance? A tick gained/lost on entry is equal in value to a tick gained/lost on exit. That's the bottom line. Why create some kind of artificial divide?

jj
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 6:21pm   #27
Joined Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp6140 View Post
================================================== =

NOTHING taken paul --- perhaps i can explain better.

if we imagine a short entry presents itself on the H1 chart
, towards the end of the evening (these, and the H4 charts are how i trade while i sleep -- i just enter a trade and leave it with my set tp points)

but anyway, weve seen what appears to be a great short trade, but 2 sisters of stunning proportions and looks barge into your home (we shall assume youre single for the moment) and DISTRACT you completely from your trading !

ok, youre not single, but your wife had to go to Quatamala to help her older sister develop a banana plantation, leaving you alone and lonely for a few years !

so a few hours later, perhaps a tad tired, they leave and you notice the trade YOU HAVENT TAKEN YET !

OMG says you, and peering at the chart you see theres still 35 pips to go before support, so you ENTER, even though its a few hours "late" for the "optimum" point !

assuming youve followed my instructions and are using the s+r overlays and your fibs, and taking into consideration the price action that has gone before, you SET YOUR TP and seek the comfort of your own bed, now solitary !

waking in the morning, a rested and new man, you take a look at your SHORT position and low and behold, you HIT THE TP right at the reversal point !!

CONGRATULATIONS BIG GUY --- youre a hell of a good trader !!!!

AND IT DIDNT MATTER WHERE YOU ENTERED !!!


SEE WHAT I MEAN !

mp



Now i see!

Good trading, Mp!

PS. Those sisters were fantastic! ...they even knew how to trade! They're booked in for next week.
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Old Apr 18, 2008, 6:27pm   #28
 
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mp - while I agree exits are important, that's a pretty false analogy - you're pretty much arguing that being slightly inaccurate in your entry is not as bad as completely messing up your exit. Obviously this is true, but I think the point Paul was making was slightly different.

You say it didn't matter where you entered, but in actual fact, you were just a bit late getting in on a valid entry. Similarly, it wouldn't be too bad to mess up an exit, provided you weren't too far off.

I think entries and exits are both important, and without taking both into account, you can't properly determine risk/reward, and therefore your edge.
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