Recommend a book

There might be a thread on this already. Im new to all this and am finding this website excellent for info. Anyone recommend a trading book to supplement it?

Hello and welcome Snacktapus

Check out this forum, you may see some recs that suits your needs, also if you can expand on your needs, that may help members to steer you to suitable reading material.

Books - T2W Day Trading & Forex Forums

and book reviews here

T2W Day Trading & Forex Community

Lightning McQueen said:

Hello and welcome Snacktapus

Check out this forum, you may see some recs that suits your needs, also if you can expand on your needs, that may help members to steer you to suitable reading material.

Books - T2W Day Trading & Forex Forums

and book reviews here

T2W Day Trading & Forex Community

Click to expand...

Don,



Too funny. A reviews section that actually listed books that had been reviewed rather than every book under the sun (with extracted foreword text being passed off as reviews by the looks of it) might help. In addition, there is now little point in providing reviews when they are lost in amongst this lot.

sandpiper said:

Don,



Too funny. A reviews section that actually listed books that had been reviewed rather than every book under the sun (with extracted foreword text being passed off as reviews by the looks of it) might help. In addition, there is now little point in providing reviews when they are lost in amongst this lot.

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While 2,614 "reviews" would seem to imply a certain lack of discrimination, to be fair you'll have to admit that asking for "a trading book" does leave the field open. What kind of trading abook are you looking for? Do you know what a stock is? What a broker does? Or are you looking for exotic arbitrage strategies?

sandpiper said:

Too funny. A reviews section that actually listed books that had been reviewed rather than every book under the sun (with extracted foreword text being passed off as reviews by the looks of it) might help. In addition, there is now little point in providing reviews when they are lost in amongst this lot.

Click to expand...

Yes, indeed. I agree with Sandpiper, this is next to useless. The T2W review section has actually gone down hill recently! More helpful to newbies would be a top 10 which, broadly speaking, most members can agree upon. Perhaps the thing to do would be to divide the subject (of trading) up into its core parts and then suggest 2-3 books on each section. Here's my quick 'off the top of my head' list in no particular order:
G E N E R A L
Reminiscences of a Stock Operator - Edwin Lefevre
Welcome to my Trading Room - Alexander Elder
The Essential of Trading - John Foreman (Rhody Trader)
Market Wizards and New Market Wizards - both by Jack Schwager
T E C H N I C A L A N A L Y S I S
The Definitive Guide to Point & Figure - Jeremy du Plessis
Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques - Steve Nison
Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets - John J. Murphy
R I S K & M O N E Y M A N A G E M E N T
Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom - Van K. Tharp
P S Y C H O L O G Y
Trading in the Zone - Mark Douglas
Anything by Brett Steenbarger!
Tim.

Don and Tim,

Better to go to Amazon.co.uk for any of these books. Generally more reviews and better prices, especially for "used" versions.

What really annoys me are the prolific authors/acknowledged experts, eg Choudhry and Fabozzi (bond markets). You will often see chapters (or very similar content)from one book reappearing in another.

The biggest con in the books is Rubinstein on Derivatives at £80. This is just a collection of reprints of old articles that have appeared in various publications. Why not just photocopy the articles and put them in a Tesco A4 ring-binder?

Unless you can actually look at a copy in a bookshop, it all somewhat hit-and-miss.

Grant.

Lightning's recommendation of the reviews thread was fine.

I just went to it Books - T2W Day Trading & Forex Forums

I saw a thread called Must-have trading book.

The recommendations are sound.

All newbies should start with reminiscences of a stock operator and trading in the zone. Other than that they should study the material here. Hows that for a blunt start to the morning --- best I go to the gym.

grantx said:

Don and Tim,

Better to go to Amazon.co.uk for any of these books. Generally more reviews and better prices, especially for "used" versions.

What really annoys me are the prolific authors/acknowledged experts, eg Choudhry and Fabozzi (bond markets). You will often see chapters (or very similar content)from one book reappearing in another.

The biggest con in the books is Rubinstein on Derivatives at £80. This is just a collection of reprints of old articles that have appeared in various publications. Why not just photocopy the articles and put them in a Tesco A4 ring-binder?

Unless you can actually look at a copy in a bookshop, it all somewhat hit-and-miss.

Grant.

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Agree. Having done the acknowledged "essentials" I like to see the actual script of any prospective read. Taking someone else's rec can be a bit like food & music - you need to sample it yourself. The pre-buy test i make on any technical type of book (not just trading - I've found this very useful in other disciplines) is to see how well the author explains something that i fully understand. If he's no good at that then it's unlikely he'll get through to me with something new. (Gets difficult if you don't understand anything in the book). I've also extended this principle to newspapers and come to the conclusion that they're mostly cr*p most of the time.

I'm sometimes gobsmacked at the price of some trading books - which may bear no relation to quality, either intellectual or physical. Like restaurants, I've often found the best quality comes at a reasonable price. If you do know precisely what book you're looking for and don't mind s/h then it's worth searching ABE or Bookfinder. You'll usually get better value buying from a non-specialist dealer, if they've got what you want.

I always find these "must have" lists interesting, particularly when they are offered to a beginner, because I rarely find anything on them that I'd recommend, at least to a beginner. I fail to see, for example, the benefit in Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, which is invariably included. Likewise the Market Wizards books. I suspect the reason why so many books like these -- e.g., Mark Douglas -- are so often recommended is that we wish we ourselves had read them when we began. The problem is that we see the value in them only because of the experiences -- usually failures -- that we've had. If we hadn't been through all of that, would we recommend these books so highly?

Therefore, I'd focus on books that explain what the markets are and how they work, specifically with regards to demand and supply and the accumulation/distribution cycle. So many people whom I encounter have been "trading" for years, yet have no idea how any of this works, or even in many cases that it even exists. They are worse off than when they started, not only because they are hopelessly lost, but also because are hopelessly confused, "knowing" so much that isn't true.

So forget candlesticks and indicators and chart patterns and anything that's so choked with jargon that you need a glossary alongside to understand what its devotees are saying. Forget all the I Was A Failure Until I Discovered (insert grail object here), forget the chatrooms and CDs and DVDs and websites and newsletters and advisory services. Forget the gurus and wizards and above all the vendors. Get a library card. It's free. Learn the basics. Become a success. Then write your own book.

I think the reason that Reminiscences of a Stock Operator and Wizards are recommended is that they both generate enthusiasm and warn a little of the wrong turns. Douglas does provide a prescription of a learning strategy and perhaps knowledge provides some inoculation against error.

I do agree though that the number purchased should be limited - there is no need to get on Amazon's best customer list as I did in the early days.

What are your recommended "how the market's really work" books for each stage of development dbphoenix?

0007,

"see how well the author explains something that i fully understand", or even better, can he explain something I don't understand.

Also be careful with recommendations. A friend working in quantitatve trading for a large bank recommended a book re some theoretical aspect of options - mathematical notation from start to finsh. I gave him the book in the end.

Cox and Rubinstein's Options Markets is £75 in the T2W bookshop; I picked it up (new) for a fiver in Manchester.

Here are a few guides to help choosing a book: Indian author, mid to high level, will require hard study but acheivable; Chinese, high level, requires a minimum MSc in maths; Italian-American, basic, simplistic; American, fantasy; English, all values expressed in guineas.

DB,

"books that explain what the markets are and how they work". No demand for these:

A: "Why are you short 10,000 10-year? Two points and your wiped out."
B: "Simple, Fibonacci...stochastic...RSI...consolidation...25 ema...resistance..."
A: "There's a Fed announcement in five minutes."
B: "What's that?"

Grant.

nine said:

I think the reason that Reminiscences of a Stock Operator and Wizards are recommended is that they both generate enthusiasm and warn a little of the wrong turns. Douglas does provide a prescription of a learning strategy and perhaps knowledge provides some inoculation against error.

I do agree though that the number purchased should be limited - there is no need to get on Amazon's best customer list as I did in the early days.

What are your recommended "how the market's really work" books for each stage of development dbphoenix?

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Generating enthusiasm is what will most likely prompt a need for all the self-help books later. Better to explain what's involved.

There's a reading list included with my book, but none of it is along the lines of Make Your Fortune In Six Weeks with the AC/DC Three-Way Thrust.

But since the OP is already into spread-betting, it's probably too late, even now.

MP -- the one i kept besides me for 4 years

Toni Turner's "a beginners guide to day trading online"

while aimed at stocks, this world class trader and possibly one of the greatest teachers in the world has a line of DVD's and books available covering flipping, swinging and investing, written in a NON - TESTOSTERONE manner that simply explains how things happen and why.

the above title covers the gamut of trading styles, and while its directed towards equities, just plug in the word "forex" everytime you see "stocks" and youll be just fine.

the book sat next to me for a number of years, and now its only a few feet further away --- everything you want to know, and a whole lot you didnt know you wanted to know is in there, including a paper trading "boot camp" lasting a week and all the reasons and rationales that make up trading !

to miss it is to miss a great teacher and a great course.

you wont find any "systems" in there per se, but solid explanations and reasons why things happen and what to watch for and when, all applicable to trading equities, forex, commodities, futures or baseball cards !

once you absorb this information, you are then completely ready to go forth and find your own niche in the markets --- youll be prepared for all of them !

enjoy and trade well

mp

MP,

There's a general consensus (with which I agree) on T2W regarding courses, DVD, advisory services, etc which charge an arm and a leg and offer negligible value, ie avoid. The question is always, if they are so good why aren't the authors trading?

On reading your post the idea of a "boot camp" is potentially a brilliant idea for someone here in the UK. Of course, it would need to be run by someone suitably qualified/experienced. The question, why aren't they trading, could have genuine explanations - they've made their money and retired but still have the interest and enthusiasm; or perhaps they're brilliant at imparting the required knowledge/expertise but for whatever reason - possibly a psychological disposition - cannot trade.

A lack of trading ability is generally stigmatised; I think this is bollockks. Assume someone is running a large options position but the (non-trading) quant or analyst next to him points out a major point of weakness or exposure overlooked by the trader. This non-trader has probably saved this guys arsee. In simple terms, traders tell us what to do, non-traders tell us what not to do.

Is it Bright Trading (run by two brothers) who offer a boot camp in the US?

Grant.

Mp --- Sometimes You Just Have To Put In So Much Effort That It Aint Worth Doing !

grantx said:

MP,

There's a general consensus (with which I agree) on T2W regarding courses, DVD, advisory services, etc which charge an arm and a leg and offer negligible value, ie avoid. The question is always, if they are so good why aren't the authors trading?

Toni Turner was one of the first successful female traders starting back in the age of the SOES Bandits ---- she continued working in "prop" shops for years, but began writing, not METHODS per se, but HOW the markets work and how to work the markets, all in a very clear, NON MASCULINE MANNER. Now this "non" thing is actually very important because it does NOT treat trading as WAR, or an extension of that which most consider "makes a man !" Whatever her reasons for continuing trading I do not know, nor do I know if she HAS discontinued trading --- all I know is this one book, out of many I purchased in the beginnings, is a veritable treasure trove of information, and put out in a manner that is entertaining and edifying !

One of the advantages of having published so many books as she has is that Amazon has her books at "used" prices also (also the NY Times rates her #1 bestseller for financial books)

On reading your post the idea of a "boot camp" is potentially a brilliant idea for someone here in the UK. Of course, it would need to be run by someone suitably qualified/experienced. The question, why aren't they trading, could have genuine explanations - they've made their money and retired but still have the interest and enthusiasm; or perhaps they're brilliant at imparting the required knowledge/expertise but for whatever reason - possibly a psychological disposition - cannot trade.

the "boot camp" i refer to is a written one, contained in the middle of the book, after the reader has absorbed some of her teachings --- it has you sit down at the computer and WATCH at first, then paper trade what you have already learned ! After that point, the book goes into more detail on individual situations, helping you through a number of problems you might run into !

A lack of trading ability is generally stigmatised; I think this is bollockks. Assume someone is running a large options position but the (non-trading) quant or analyst next to him points out a major point of weakness or exposure overlooked by the trader. This non-trader has probably saved this guys arsee. In simple terms, traders tell us what to do, non-traders tell us what not to do.

to me the above is to close to "how many angels . . . . . . etc" Those who know my "MP" and signature know I ONLY teach REALITY OF THE MARKETS --- how they move and when, and leave discussion and philosophies to those who like that sort of thing.

Other words, I havent a clue as to how to answer or reply to your statement !

Is it Bright Trading (run by two brothers) who offer a boot camp in the US?

They are still a going concern and still offer at home courses, be that good or bad !

But now having thought it over, and realizing how few newbs are really interested in trading as opposed to "getting rich quick" or "some extra pocket change", I would imagine that out of every 100 who start the book, only a few would ever finish it, and of that few, only ONE would ever get any value, but that ONE person would have learned how to trade all by themselves because they WANTED to learn. Fortunately for those who are truly traders, the dilletantes drop out quickly and clear the field (although, like the bus to Hollywood, a new crop of "starlets" is always arriving.

Forget my recommendation --- actually learning anything about how markets work is something I teach daily, throughout these threads, and the ones with REAL interest are already learning and its a waste of time to help the dillitantes !
Grant.

Click to expand...

enjoy and trade well

mp

Within the great hall at Elfinore stands a wondrous coffer, precisely four cubits square and securely latched against the outside world. Inside that repository, shut away from impertinent eyes, abides many an intriquing trading secret garnered from around the world and over the ages !

As a child, i used to watch from the darkness as the secrets were debated and annotated by the elders. No one there held a single thought of my presence -- BUT I KNOW WHERE THEY HID THE KEY !!

mp6140 said:

Toni Turner's "a beginners guide to day trading online"

while aimed at stocks, this world class trader and possibly one of the greatest teachers in the world has a line of DVD's and books available covering flipping, swinging and investing, written in a NON - TESTOSTERONE manner that simply explains how things happen and why.

the above title covers the gamut of trading styles, and while its directed towards equities, just plug in the word "forex" everytime you see "stocks" and youll be just fine.

the book sat next to me for a number of years, and now its only a few feet further away --- everything you want to know, and a whole lot you didnt know you wanted to know is in there, including a paper trading "boot camp" lasting a week and all the reasons and rationales that make up trading !

to miss it is to miss a great teacher and a great course.

you wont find any "systems" in there per se, but solid explanations and reasons why things happen and what to watch for and when, all applicable to trading equities, forex, commodities, futures or baseball cards !

once you absorb this information, you are then completely ready to go forth and find your own niche in the markets --- youll be prepared for all of them !

enjoy and trade well

mp

Click to expand...

mp,

Agree with your assessment of this book. I read it fairly early on and although I wasn't daring to get into day trading (that's for big boys and still is as far as I'm concerned) i did find it very useful as an explanation of what the market vs me is all about. Dead cheap paperback, still on my shelf and & well worth a re-read from time to time.

So important to understand basic principles................in any subject !

0007 said:

mp,

Agree with your assessment of this book. I read it fairly early on and although I wasn't daring to get into day trading (that's for big boys and still is as far as I'm concerned) i did find it very useful as an explanation of what the market vs me is all about. Dead cheap paperback, still on my shelf and & well worth a re-read from time to time.

So important to understand basic principles................in any subject !

Click to expand...

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thnx for the agreement --- even cheaper now that there are tons of used copies around,

while further books spend more time on "swing trading" and the longer term trading, theres a lot of that in her first book. For me anyway, even though I made dozens of errors for a very long time, at least I could read WHAT I had done wrong, and that sure helped. Unfortunately, in this and many other forumns, when you make a mistake you get 43 reasons why it happened --- with her at least, theres only THE answer !

and to argue with you, ONCE YOU GET THE HANG OF WHATS GOING ON, daytrading is a hoot !

btw --- does that extra zero in your alias give you any additional licenses beyond simple killing, such as boiling in water, tar and feathering or pushing people off the tops of mountains ?

enjoy and trade well
mp

mp6140 said:

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.................
and to argue with you, ONCE YOU GET THE HANG OF WHATS GOING ON, daytrading is a hoot !

btw --- does that extra zero in your alias give you any additional licenses beyond simple killing, such as boiling in water, tar and feathering or pushing people off the tops of mountains ?

enjoy and trade well
mp

Click to expand...

mp,

Funny you should say that about day trading. I started off trading long term (that's up to about 100 days for me) and as I've improved my system & confidence and learned more I've gradually reduced my time frame. Now down to swing trading over a couple of days or even intraday if i reach my target (ie what S/R tells me). Find this more satisfying as i don't have to wait weeks etc. For some reason i get a nice psychological feeling with a string of profitable trades - which I'm finding easier on a shorter time frame. I just chuck out the wasters asap: if it ain't going nowhere why stay with it? (Then have a good look at why you ever got mixed up with it in the first place)

As to the extra zero in my alias: it's actually an "O" that stand for Ostensible !

Cheers. Your other thread very interesting. & isn't it wonderful how 2 people thousands of miles apart can have an exchange of ideas witnessed by thousands of others anywhere in the world. Smart bloke that Berners-Lee chap and those fellows at ARPANET !

0007 said:

mp,

. . . . . . . . . . . . Now down to swing trading over a couple of days or even intraday if i reach my target (ie what S/R tells me). Find this more satisfying as i don't have to wait weeks etc. For some reason i get a nice psychological feeling with a string of profitable trades - which I'm finding easier on a shorter time frame. I just chuck out the wasters asap: if it ain't going nowhere why stay with it? (Then have a good look at why you ever got mixed up with it in the first place)

the biggest problem with longer term swing trading is the heartbreak of watching the price come up, and then ----- BAM ! Down she goes again on the next cycle before coming back up --- on longer terms, I like to ride EACH cycle and bail and take the counter trade (although a lot of times Ill simply hold the one, and hop on the other for its trip down, such as just happened with a long i had on GBPUSD --- it topped but I saw more upside, so I went back in, and naturally the sucker reversed for a while and so I took the SHORT on the 15 min chart --- worked out nicely, but if I had just the long, it would be a long nite before I saw anything that resembled profit and that wonderful warm and fuzzy feeling --- but then again, the McGiver sisters will be here soon !

So yeah, shorter timeframes give you a warm and fuzzy feeling faster, and thats pretty much what the worlds come to !

As to the extra zero in my alias: it's actually an "O" that stand for Ostensible !

LOL --- at least now I know !

Cheers. Your other thread very interesting. & isn't it wonderful how 2 people thousands of miles apart can have an exchange of ideas witnessed by thousands of others anywhere in the world. Smart bloke that Berners-Lee chap and those fellows at ARPANET !

Smart for them indeed, but imagine how it must have all started started ---- a whole big number of years ago with some semi-human pointing at something (probably a pomegranite) and screeching "MUGBA, MUGBA !"

WHO WOULD HAVE KNOWN !

Click to expand...

enjoy

mp

"I live in my own little world but its ok, they know me there" anon