Hav Trading

This is a discussion on Hav Trading within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; I've decided to start this thread since I bagged a copy of the above system a few months ago and ...

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Old Oct 29, 2017, 1:04am   #1
Joined Aug 2015
Hav Trading

I've decided to start this thread since I bagged a copy of the above system a few months ago and I wanted to see if it was any good.

It's been around for a while apparently and marketed to death by the usual suspects, so naturally I was a bit sceptical, especially since one or two of these suspects would sell their own grandmother for a few bucks

I finished some back-testing of this to the start for 2016 and so far I do think this has some legs to it. The results were good but back-testing is never easy and the best way to find out for sure is to to make some trades, either in a demo a/c or live, when the signals indicate that a trade is 'on'.

My manual is from Feb 2015 and the % target profit is 5%, although it talks about having a lower % if required. Stake depends upon size of bank, attitude to risk etc. The manual uses a 14% risk which is what I have used for testing purposes and in my demo a/c. Trades I've decided to take on in my live account, I've used 10% (the manual gives examples of 10%, 7.5% & 5% so you can use what risk you feel comfortable with)

The stake is calculated by dividing the maximum risk amount £ by 10% of the index price (it's always 10%) as in this example:

Bank, %Risk, Max risk, Index price, Stake,
£10k, 14, 1400, 11200, 1.25,

I have made a number of changes to the system:
1. I use a trailing stop loss to lock in profits as I have seen wild swings from profit to loss in a matter of weeks or less.

2. The manual says that unless both signal indicators change to opposite sides of the candlestick, you leave a trade open until it hits the stop or limit. I don't like this approach and would prefer to see a trade closed in either the current quarter or at the very latest, the following one.

3. There is another rule which I ignore and that's the one dealing with potential signals i.e. The candlestick is the wrong colour but events could change etc. Too much faffing about for me.

This is just me though, I've found most systems I've come across are utter rubbish and others are too rigid in their rules, but some have useful ideas.

Tomorrow I will post details of actual demo trades opened.

If anyone is or has used this system, it would be good to hear your thoughts on it

Regards
Becks

Last edited by Becks100; Oct 29, 2017 at 1:37am.
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 1:10am   #2
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If you thought you were on to something, why would you post it, you should be busy working on it.....
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 1:49am   #3
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Originally Posted by Sonicscooter View Post
If you thought you were on to something, why would you post it, you should be busy working on it.....

It's called a forum and the idea if you don't understand is to share ideas with like-minded people who may be using the system or have done so in the past.

Clearly you're a know-it-all and it does beg the question as to why you are on this thread in the first place.

Too many weirdos about these days

Last edited by Becks100; Oct 29, 2017 at 1:56am.
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Thanks! The following members like this post: Lee Shepherd , IceMan
Old Oct 29, 2017, 7:28am   #4
 
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You have a good attitude Becks and may the Gods look kindly upon your efforts.

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Old Oct 29, 2017, 2:12pm   #5
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You have a good attitude Becks and may the Gods look kindly upon your efforts.

Likewise and thank you for your invaluable contribution.
Have a nice day

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Old Oct 29, 2017, 3:30pm   #6
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Originally Posted by Becks100 View Post
I've decided to start this thread since I bagged a copy of the above system..
hi becks

im not familiar with this... is it a mechanical system? how are you backtesting it? (e.g. is it already coded..)

K
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 4:11pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Becks100 View Post
I've decided to start this thread since I bagged a copy of the above system a few months ago and I wanted to see if it was any good.

It's been around for a while apparently and marketed to death by the usual suspects, so naturally I was a bit sceptical, especially since one or two of these suspects would sell their own grandmother for a few bucks

I finished some back-testing of this to the start for 2016 and so far I do think this has some legs to it. The results were good but back-testing is never easy and the best way to find out for sure is to to make some trades, either in a demo a/c or live, when the signals indicate that a trade is 'on'.

My manual is from Feb 2015 and the % target profit is 5%, although it talks about having a lower % if required. Stake depends upon size of bank, attitude to risk etc. The manual uses a 14% risk which is what I have used for testing purposes and in my demo a/c. Trades I've decided to take on in my live account, I've used 10% (the manual gives examples of 10%, 7.5% & 5% so you can use what risk you feel comfortable with)

The stake is calculated by dividing the maximum risk amount £ by 10% of the index price (it's always 10%) as in this example:

Bank, %Risk, Max risk, Index price, Stake,
£10k, 14, 1400, 11200, 1.25,

I have made a number of changes to the system:
1. I use a trailing stop loss to lock in profits as I have seen wild swings from profit to loss in a matter of weeks or less.

2. The manual says that unless both signal indicators change to opposite sides of the candlestick, you leave a trade open until it hits the stop or limit. I don't like this approach and would prefer to see a trade closed in either the current quarter or at the very latest, the following one.

3. There is another rule which I ignore and that's the one dealing with potential signals i.e. The candlestick is the wrong colour but events could change etc. Too much faffing about for me.

This is just me though, I've found most systems I've come across are utter rubbish and others are too rigid in their rules, but some have useful ideas.

Tomorrow I will post details of actual demo trades opened.

If anyone is or has used this system, it would be good to hear your thoughts on it

Regards
Becks
Can you please elaborate a bit, especially how you can make money with 5% target and 14% risk? So in a trade with 10k you are targeting to make 500 while risking 1400, this doesn't make any mathematical sense to me...
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"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die." Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.

Count de Money number 1 trading rule: EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Before you trade even single penny on the stock market, please spend the time and educate yourself by back testing different trading strategies and ideas - go to eBay and search for "historical stock market data", you can buy 20 years of data for less than $100 - that's all you need to start.
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 6:24pm   #8
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Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
hi becks

im not familiar with this... is it a mechanical system? how are you backtesting it? (e.g. is it already coded..)

K
Yes it is and it involves checking the values of 2 indicators against the closing price at the end of each week.

Back testing, I was just running through the charts on a weekly basis, not easy and it took me a long time
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 6:44pm   #9
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Originally Posted by Quantt View Post
Can you please elaborate a bit, especially how you can make money with 5% target and 14% risk? So in a trade with 10k you are targeting to make 500 while risking 1400, this doesn't make any mathematical sense to me...
The stop loss is only ever going to be a maximum of 10%, but is usually less than this - it depends upon the values of 2 other indicators. This is essentially a risk/reward ratio of 2/1

If the 10% stop is hit this should be approx 14% of the trading bank going from the manual's staking plan and a 5% profit boosting the bank by up to 7%.

As mentioned previously, when demo/live trading I use the 10% figure when calculating my max bank risk and my stake etc.

Very rarely is the stop loss anywhere close to the 10% level, but it does depend upon the values of two other indicators.
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 6:53pm   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Becks100 View Post
The stop loss is only ever going to be a maximum of 10%, but is usually less than this - it depends upon the values of 2 other indicators. This is essentially a risk/reward ratio of 2/1

If the 10% stop is hit this should be approx 14% of the trading bank going from the manual's staking plan and a 5% profit boosting the bank by up to 7%.

As mentioned previously, when demo/live trading I use the 10% figure when calculating my max bank risk and my stake etc.

Very rarely is the stop loss anywhere close to the 10% level, but it does depend upon the values of two other indicators.
Still doesn't make sense to me, so I am eager to see your back testing results...

Cheers!
__________________
"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die." Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.

Count de Money number 1 trading rule: EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Before you trade even single penny on the stock market, please spend the time and educate yourself by back testing different trading strategies and ideas - go to eBay and search for "historical stock market data", you can buy 20 years of data for less than $100 - that's all you need to start.
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 7:10pm   #11
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Becks100 started this thread There are some things I can't divulge, but people who are familiar with the system will hopefully understand the screenshot I will upload later of demo/live trades since Sept
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 7:20pm   #12
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Becks100 started this thread img_0005.png

I hope that has worked
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 8:11pm   #13
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Originally Posted by Becks100 View Post
Yes it is and it involves checking the values of 2 indicators against the closing price at the end of each week.

Back testing, I was just running through the charts on a weekly basis, not easy and it took me a long time
oh i see so more of a manual back test on a longer term system.

Although I don't know about and cant comment on the system you seem to be keeping a good track of risk, position sizing and keeping records so it all looks promising

One thing id highlight is being careful of taking multiple trades in correlated markets like multiple indices etc which could all punish you at the same time. Perhaps have a rule about that. If you're already clear on this then thats alright

Last edited by Kaeso; Oct 29, 2017 at 9:51pm.
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 9:34pm   #14
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Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
oh i see so more of a manual back test on a longer term system.

Although I don't know about or can comment on the system you seem to be keeping a good track of risk, position sizing and keeping records so it all looks promising

One thing id highlight is being careful of taking multiple trades in correlated markets like multiple indices etc which could all punish you at the same time. Perhaps have a rule about that. If you're already clear on this then thats alright

Thanks Kaesong that's really useful. The manual briefly touches on the subject but I had completely forgotten about it until you jogged my memory

The back testing took ages and I did most of it at work whilst waiting for people to disturb me and it drove me nuts.

There are no new trades scheduled for this week. The last one opened was the Eur/Chf forex one which at one point in the week was about 60 pips up but is now -15
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Old Oct 29, 2017, 11:19pm   #15
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Originally Posted by Becks100 View Post
Thanks Kaesong that's really useful. The manual briefly touches on the subject but I had completely forgotten about it until you jogged my memory
its an important thing to remember if you are holding multiple positions. Here is a chart of CAC n DAX for example:

(DAX is red)

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Kaeso; Oct 29, 2017 at 11:41pm.
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