Almost there.

This is a discussion on Almost there. within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by Brumby Frankly I don't understand why you would want to day trade starting out. There are broadly ...

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Old Oct 9, 2017, 2:36pm   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Brumby View Post
Frankly I don't understand why you would want to day trade starting out. There are broadly three types of trading : sessions (day trade); swing; and trend. Sessions trading is the most demanding in terms of craft skills requirement and when you are starting out it is like learning to drive while travelling at 100 kmh. The chances of you crashing is almost certain and industry figures basically testifies to this reality.

The nature of sessions trading mean you execute a high number of trades each session. Brokerage cost will kill your profits even if you are minimally profitable. Professional day traders trade through a prop firm (US). The brokerage cost is amazingly almost nil. My son used to trade through a prop firm and their volume was so big that the firm actually gets a rebate from the exchanges because they were generating high liquidity for the market.

Your various post suggest that you are diligently careful and you do your homework. Go slow and get an idea of what it is like paper trading the ASX before moving on from there. The market will always be around.
This post should be pinned as must read for new traders, very good advises indeed!
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"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die." Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.

My number 1 trading rule: EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Before you trade even single penny on the stock market, please spend the time and educate yourself by back testing different trading strategies and ideas - go to eBay and search for "historical stock market data", you can buy 20 years of data for less than $100 - that's all you need to start.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 4:41pm   #26
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Buzzard76 started this thread Sounds good to me, will just keep reading and learning as I go.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 11:41pm   #27
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Buzzard76 started this thread So brumby, are you saying I should leave intradat stock trading and concentrate on forex.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 12:05am   #28
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So brumby, are you saying I should leave intradat stock trading and concentrate on forex.
No. I am just giving you the heads up on the difficulties ahead. Since you are going to paper trade as a first step there is no real damage to your bank account. You can make your own determination once you have had a chance to apply your own judgement.

The one advantage of trading short time frames is that in one intra day session say even if you are using 5 min bar charts is equivalent to 72 bars on a daily time frame. Your education is highly accelerated. Just don't do it with real money. The typical problem when using demo accounts is new traders tend to focus on whether they can make money trading. Your focus is on learning the trading process. Your trade results is a function of your process. Most starting out don't care about the process, They just want to make money.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 12:29am   #29
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Buzzard76 started this thread Yes i understand that to be a good trader it it all about sticking to your plan and the actual execution of the trade. If you trade according to good tested rules and don't deviate from your plan that is a good trade. Even if you did all this and it is a losing trade and hits your stop or you pull the trade before it hits your stop it is still considered a "good" trade, because you followed you methodology and trade rules. Basically if all criterion of your plan are meet it is a good trade the money is just a bonus. I know i will be up against prop traders hft algorithms and industry proffesionals with years of experience and access to the best fastest data systems with up to the second news and servers on the trading floor to cut down milli seconds on each trade which account to several thousand per second. This is probably why anywhere from 4 to 4.5% of day traders are the only successful ones out of the bunch. With this in mind, an i better to get proficient with the process of trading with all the different facets such as order types, stops targets etc in the simulator and then move to forex or indices trading options whatever or plug away at cfd stock trading. Surely its possible to make money doing that. Or would i save myself time and grief and concentrate on other intruments that might be easier to trade with a higher percentage of success.
Buzz.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 2:13am   #30
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Originally Posted by Buzzard76 View Post
With this in mind, an i better to get proficient with the process of trading with all the different facets such as order types, stops targets etc in the simulator and then move to forex or indices trading options whatever or plug away at cfd stock trading. Surely its possible to make money doing that. Or would i save myself time and grief and concentrate on other intruments that might be easier to trade with a higher percentage of success.
There are principally two issues that you have raised; (i) decision choices of instruments and or markets; and (ii) is one market easier to trade than others.

Firstly, there are many decision drivers in determining choices. It includes timing and time available. I am based in Sydney and if I were to trade US stocks I would be a walking zombie day trading the US market. Life style and family consideration is an important factor and they differ between individuals. Secondly I moved away from stocks primarily I don't have to deal with excessive price gaps as FX is a 24/7 market.

Regarding the second issue, in trading you need to develop an edge to succeed. A sustainable edge comes from many moving parts and they all need to come together to deliver success. It requires matching your personality, risk profile to a trading time frame and trade methodology that makes sense. It requires knowing the right trade craft and having the appropriate trade tool. You then have to deal with the psychological issues of enhancing trade performance. All markets have unique characteristics and behaviour. You need to know what they are.
One main reason why some trade multi uncorrelated market is to smooth out the equity curve as markets move through phases. There are market phases where the conditions are difficult and that is when you have draw downs.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 5:04am   #31
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Buzzard76 started this thread Yes I see what you mean about the night market thing and family/job commitments. I live alone and have no factors to disturb me really. Im nocturnal by nature, either that or my entire working life consisting of 12hr shifts from 5pm to 5am. I think I will take your advise and paper trade the asx and get familiar with actually placing trades and different order types. If I feel comfortable after x amount of months I might go live on the Asx, whether it be share cfd's or indices. If I dont feel comfortable with that I think I will migrate to a US Broker and try my hand on the nyse and nasdaq. Having superior services such as trade ideas, benzinga finviz, etc and complete level2 dom surely has to be some sort of advantage, if only slim. If that doesn't pan out then I will devote my time to either swing trading or the forex market after considerable study and testing of both. I am definitely determined to trade and mentally dont see failure as an option. It might just take trial by fire to find my edge and niche in what ever part of the market I end up in. Wherever that place may be I am absolutely determined to reach it and I don't care how long I have to simulate and then go live and trade small positions to work it out. Mentally I am 110% determined to get to that place and God willing I will.
Anyway, thanks for all the advice Brumby, i really appreciated an experienced trader trying to help a newbie such as myself. I will keep in touch and let you know how I am progressing and which path I take. I once again thank you for your sound, solid advice and I will heed it.
If I get stuck with something which will almost certainly happen I hope you don't mind if I hit you up for some more pearls of wisdom.
Thanks very much and I'm sure we'll speak again.
Kind regards
Buzz.
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