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This is a discussion on Almost there. within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by Buzzard76 I have read some articles on swing trading including one strategy where a trailing stop was ...

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Old Oct 8, 2017, 11:07am   #16
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I have read some articles on swing trading including one strategy where a trailing stop was used. The trailing stop was based on 3% of average true range I believe, instead of a set amount of cents $.
i think it will have been 3 X ATR if he was a swinger, not 3% of ATR ?

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I've been reading/studying nearly every night for about 12 months and feel like i have only scratched the surface.
Gooood you are studying hard! You probably know plenty of sexy theory already and next its the practical experience and revision of the key issues which you need in order to make a start in developing your own process
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 11:37am   #17
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You have done some leg work regarding your infrastructure requirements and redundancies. What is your backup plan for your internet connection should your main provider goes down? Do you have a backup for your trading station should your main goes off line? What is your planned pre market daily stock screening process? Have you bedded down your screening software and filtering criteria? Do you have a universe of stocks that you intend to trade from e.g. top 100 or anything that moves on that day? Do you intend to exclude stocks that are also listed off shore e.g. BHP in London where you are subject to trading movements overnight and potentially gap plays that are somewhat artificial? Do you intend to monitor correlated activities like base metal or oil prices during the day which might impact your intended stock? Do you intend to have real time news source or squawk audio providing you with real time information on news that might move the market during your intra day session?
Hi Brumby and thank you for the questions as they expose just how much I have to learn before even contemplating going live.
As to my main provider going down I will have a laptop with the platform ready to go running off a mobile hotspot. Is this sufficient do you think.
Will be looking at the asx 20 xtl to start, with a focus on cba,anz,wbc,nab, as i have been following the banks and trying to look for patterns that they move in.
Also been looking at ramsay health care (rhc) rea, wow, and woodside as they seem to have some good intraday moves.

I have absolutely no idea where to get my stock screening software from as yet and any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Do we have an equivalent to finviz or trade ideas for screening? And on the news/sqauwk situation, what would be our equivalent to say Benzinga.
Any help you could give me on these sort of providers would be a very big help and i thank you for the questions. It does actually show how green I am and how much I have to learn.
Thanks in advance to any help and light you could shine on my blaring deficiency.
Buzz.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 11:43am   #18
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Buzzard76 started this thread Yes Kaeso it was 3x atr.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 5:09am   #19
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As to my main provider going down I will have a laptop with the platform ready to go running off a mobile hotspot. Is this sufficient do you think.
If I am building redundancy in case of an outage, I would ensure my backup is with another provider. As often the case in Sydney, when Optus is down it is highly unusual that Telstra will be also. A data stick is inexpensive and the only way to know is to do a dry run. You just need to ensure your back up plan is viable - not just on paper.

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Will be looking at the asx 20 xtl to start, with a focus on cba,anz,wbc,nab, as i have been following the banks and trying to look for patterns that they move in.
Also been looking at ramsay health care (rhc) rea, wow, and woodside as they seem to have some good intraday moves.
There are generally two fundamental drivers of intra day prices. The first is overnight US market sentiments overflowing into the Australian market. The other is counter/industry specific news e.g. earnings and company related items et al.
You need to know what market risk events are there on the trading day and be able to source real time or close to the real time news as it happens. Audio squawk would be useful. If you are trading purely on prices and not tapped into the market regarding fundamental drivers you are effectively trading blind. Institutional traders will have Bloomberg terminals. You will have to find something similar that you can afford. I am unable to advise further as I don't trade the ASX market anymore - not in the last 10 years.

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I have absolutely no idea where to get my stock screening software from as yet and any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Do we have an equivalent to finviz or trade ideas for screening? And on the news/sqauwk situation, what would be our equivalent to say Benzinga.
You can try incredible charts as the charting program has a stock screener. The service is free. There is a premium version with prices updated before midnight.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 9:22am   #20
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Buzzard76 started this thread Thanks for the reply Brumby. I'll definitely look into incredible charts. My original plan was to trade the us market of a night which still could be on the cards. If I do go down that route I was thinking of useing lightspeed trader as my broker. Do you have any recommendations for brokers in the US. I have the capital to satisfy the PDT rule so all is ok there.
Thanks in advance
Buzz
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 9:50am   #21
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Thanks for the reply Brumby. I'll definitely look into incredible charts. My original plan was to trade the us market of a night which still could be on the cards. If I do go down that route I was thinking of useing lightspeed trader as my broker. Do you have any recommendations for brokers in the US. I have the capital to satisfy the PDT rule so all is ok there.
Thanks in advance
Buzz
Frankly I don't understand why you would want to day trade starting out. There are broadly three types of trading : sessions (day trade); swing; and trend. Sessions trading is the most demanding in terms of craft skills requirement and when you are starting out it is like learning to drive while travelling at 100 kmh. The chances of you crashing is almost certain and industry figures basically testifies to this reality.

The nature of sessions trading mean you execute a high number of trades each session. Brokerage cost will kill your profits even if you are minimally profitable. Professional day traders trade through a prop firm (US). The brokerage cost is amazingly almost nil. My son used to trade through a prop firm and their volume was so big that the firm actually gets a rebate from the exchanges because they were generating high liquidity for the market.

Your various post suggest that you are diligently careful and you do your homework. Go slow and get an idea of what it is like paper trading the ASX before moving on from there. The market will always be around.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 9:56am   #22
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Buzzard76 started this thread Yes so true. I will research for a news feed and check out incredible charts. Thanks for the tips.
I'll try not to annoy you but if i get stuck i might shoot you a pm if that is ok.
Thanks once again.
Buzz.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 10:18am   #23
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Yes so true. I will research for a news feed and check out incredible charts. Thanks for the tips.
I'll try not to annoy you but if i get stuck i might shoot you a pm if that is ok.
Thanks once again.
Buzz.
I only trade FX now and real time news is fundamentally important for me. I don't think it would be as important if you trade the ASX but it would be useful to have it rather than not. For example, if there was a terrorist incident I would know immediately through the real time news and effectively see the fx markets adjusting to the incident.

The universal real time news used by professional traders that cannot afford a Bloomberg terminal is RANSquawk. I believe they have a trial service. It cost US$150 a month and Asia Pac coverage I think is additional cost.

Always glad to assist if I can.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 10:20am   #24
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Buzzard76 started this thread Thanks Brumby I will check it out.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 2:36pm   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Brumby View Post
Frankly I don't understand why you would want to day trade starting out. There are broadly three types of trading : sessions (day trade); swing; and trend. Sessions trading is the most demanding in terms of craft skills requirement and when you are starting out it is like learning to drive while travelling at 100 kmh. The chances of you crashing is almost certain and industry figures basically testifies to this reality.

The nature of sessions trading mean you execute a high number of trades each session. Brokerage cost will kill your profits even if you are minimally profitable. Professional day traders trade through a prop firm (US). The brokerage cost is amazingly almost nil. My son used to trade through a prop firm and their volume was so big that the firm actually gets a rebate from the exchanges because they were generating high liquidity for the market.

Your various post suggest that you are diligently careful and you do your homework. Go slow and get an idea of what it is like paper trading the ASX before moving on from there. The market will always be around.
This post should be pinned as must read for new traders, very good advises indeed!
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"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die." Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.

Count de Money number 1 trading rule: EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Before you trade even single penny on the stock market, please spend the time and educate yourself by back testing different trading strategies and ideas - go to eBay and search for "historical stock market data", you can buy 20 years of data for less than $100 - that's all you need to start.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 4:41pm   #26
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Buzzard76 started this thread Sounds good to me, will just keep reading and learning as I go.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 11:41pm   #27
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Buzzard76 started this thread So brumby, are you saying I should leave intradat stock trading and concentrate on forex.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 12:05am   #28
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So brumby, are you saying I should leave intradat stock trading and concentrate on forex.
No. I am just giving you the heads up on the difficulties ahead. Since you are going to paper trade as a first step there is no real damage to your bank account. You can make your own determination once you have had a chance to apply your own judgement.

The one advantage of trading short time frames is that in one intra day session say even if you are using 5 min bar charts is equivalent to 72 bars on a daily time frame. Your education is highly accelerated. Just don't do it with real money. The typical problem when using demo accounts is new traders tend to focus on whether they can make money trading. Your focus is on learning the trading process. Your trade results is a function of your process. Most starting out don't care about the process, They just want to make money.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 12:29am   #29
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Buzzard76 started this thread Yes i understand that to be a good trader it it all about sticking to your plan and the actual execution of the trade. If you trade according to good tested rules and don't deviate from your plan that is a good trade. Even if you did all this and it is a losing trade and hits your stop or you pull the trade before it hits your stop it is still considered a "good" trade, because you followed you methodology and trade rules. Basically if all criterion of your plan are meet it is a good trade the money is just a bonus. I know i will be up against prop traders hft algorithms and industry proffesionals with years of experience and access to the best fastest data systems with up to the second news and servers on the trading floor to cut down milli seconds on each trade which account to several thousand per second. This is probably why anywhere from 4 to 4.5% of day traders are the only successful ones out of the bunch. With this in mind, an i better to get proficient with the process of trading with all the different facets such as order types, stops targets etc in the simulator and then move to forex or indices trading options whatever or plug away at cfd stock trading. Surely its possible to make money doing that. Or would i save myself time and grief and concentrate on other intruments that might be easier to trade with a higher percentage of success.
Buzz.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 2:13am   #30
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With this in mind, an i better to get proficient with the process of trading with all the different facets such as order types, stops targets etc in the simulator and then move to forex or indices trading options whatever or plug away at cfd stock trading. Surely its possible to make money doing that. Or would i save myself time and grief and concentrate on other intruments that might be easier to trade with a higher percentage of success.
There are principally two issues that you have raised; (i) decision choices of instruments and or markets; and (ii) is one market easier to trade than others.

Firstly, there are many decision drivers in determining choices. It includes timing and time available. I am based in Sydney and if I were to trade US stocks I would be a walking zombie day trading the US market. Life style and family consideration is an important factor and they differ between individuals. Secondly I moved away from stocks primarily I don't have to deal with excessive price gaps as FX is a 24/7 market.

Regarding the second issue, in trading you need to develop an edge to succeed. A sustainable edge comes from many moving parts and they all need to come together to deliver success. It requires matching your personality, risk profile to a trading time frame and trade methodology that makes sense. It requires knowing the right trade craft and having the appropriate trade tool. You then have to deal with the psychological issues of enhancing trade performance. All markets have unique characteristics and behaviour. You need to know what they are.
One main reason why some trade multi uncorrelated market is to smooth out the equity curve as markets move through phases. There are market phases where the conditions are difficult and that is when you have draw downs.
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