Confused about the day trading rule

006

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The wording of the rule seems like it applies to the same security.
ex. If i trade stock a 4 times, I'm in trouble
Does it mean though that I can trade as many different stocks as much as i'd like, as long as it is under 4?
ex. Trade stock A 3 times, Stock B 3 times, Stock C 3 times, etc.

I honestly could not find the answer to this anywhere. Thank you.
 
No , you cant have more than 3 daytrades in 5 trading days .

Daytrade : Open and close at the same day .
 
The wording of the rule seems like it applies to the same security.
ex. If i trade stock a 4 times, I'm in trouble
Does it mean though that I can trade as many different stocks as much as i'd like, as long as it is under 4?
ex. Trade stock A 3 times, Stock B 3 times, Stock C 3 times, etc.

I honestly could not find the answer to this anywhere. Thank you.

Hi 006,
Welcome to T2W.

No, sorry to say the rule applies any stock, so trading a different stock won't get around the problem. Nice try! If you're looking to side-step the whole PDT rule then, besides saving up the USD $25k minimum, you really only have two options that I'm aware of :
1. Open an account with an unregulated broker (by the SEC anyway) - usually based offshore in some banana republic (not recommended).
2. Open a CFD account. CFDs are a derivative product that aren't covered by the rule. However, please be aware that CFDs are a leveraged product traded on margin which, if used unwisely, carries higher levels of risk than trading actual equities via a direct market access broker.
Tim.

PS. Just noticed you're from the U.S. where (I think) CFDs aren't permitted. Time to emigrate!
 
Thanks for the replies.

I sort of figured as much, but like most laws and regs it is worded poorly(as is that sentence lol.)

I have the money for an account, it just draws me very thin. I still have a ways to go before I take the plunge anyways.
 
What's with the rules, seriously, trade they way it suits your style, don't trade like somebody else is telling you to!
 
Pattern day trader is a term defined by FINRA to describe a stock market trader who executes 4 (or more) day trades in 5 business days in a margin account, provided the number of day trades are more than six percent of the customer's total trading activity for that same five-day period.

A FINRA (formerly National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc. or NASD) rule applies to any customer who buys and sells a particular security in the same trading day (day trades), and does this four or more times in any five consecutive business day period; the rule applies to margin accounts, but not to cash accounts. A pattern day trader is subject to special rules. The main rule is that in order to engage in pattern day trading you must maintain an equity balance of at least $25,000 in a margin account. The required minimum equity must be in the account prior to any daytrading activities. Three months must pass without a day trade for a person so classified to lose the restrictions imposed on them. Pursuant to NYSE 432, brokerage firms must maintain a daily record of required margin.

The minimum equity requirement in FINRA Rule 4210 was approved by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on February 27, 2001 by approving amendments to NASD Rule 2520.

Source: wikipedia



The wording of the rule seems like it applies to the same security.
ex. If i trade stock a 4 times, I'm in trouble
Does it mean though that I can trade as many different stocks as much as i'd like, as long as it is under 4?
ex. Trade stock A 3 times, Stock B 3 times, Stock C 3 times, etc.

I honestly could not find the answer to this anywhere. Thank you.
 
Although I haven't done this myself, I think you can sort of sidestep this by transferring the required funds into your account when your broker notices it and transferring them back out after a couple of days. Also, if I remember correctly, the rule only applies to trading on margin, so I believe you can daytrade however much you want with whatever account size you want as long as you never trade on margin. This does restrict you to only long trades though. I am by no means an expert on this though, so I could be wrong on this. Personally I find this rule very stupid.
 
Although I haven't done this myself, I think you can sort of sidestep this by transferring the required funds into your account when your broker notices it and transferring them back out after a couple of days. Also, if I remember correctly, the rule only applies to trading on margin, so I believe you can daytrade however much you want with whatever account size you want as long as you never trade on margin. This does restrict you to only long trades though. I am by no means an expert on this though, so I could be wrong on this. Personally I find this rule very stupid.

Yes i heard this can be done in a cash account not sure though , but what i am sure about is in a cash account you should be wary to not use unsettled funds for this . - T+3 - .

From a broker's site :

"Simply put, if you have settled funds in your account at the start of day, you may use it for a purchase; alternatively, if you have unsettled funds in your account or if you sell a position to generate additional funds, you may use those funds as well, so long as you then hold the new position through the settlement of the positions liquidated to make the purchase. If you sell the new position before this occurs, this results in a good faith violation. If the new position is held through settlement, no violation occurs. It should be noted that the violation occurs only if you prematurely SELL the NEW position.

Two examples:

1) A customer starts on Monday with 100 shares of XYZ long in a cash account with no cash credit available for use. On Monday, 100 XYZ shares are sold for $1,000 and 500 ABC shares purchased for $1,000. On Wednesday, 500 ABC shares are sold for $1,200. This results in a ?good faith violation?. If the customer had held the ABC shares until Thursday, or if funds are received prior to settlement of the ABC shares, no violation occurs.

2) $5,000 due to be available on Wednesday and $5,000 pending settlement on Friday. On the prior Monday, the customer buys $10,000 worth of ACME. If the ACME shares are sold on Wednesday or Thursday, a good faith violation for $5,000 occurs. This is due to the fact that $5,000 is still pending settlement until Friday. If the sale were to occur on Friday or later no violation exists.

STRIKE POLICY

There is a three strike policy for Good Faith Violations. Customers will be allowed two good faith violations in a twelve month rolling period with no penalty. A third violation will result in the account being placed on 90 day restriction. If a violation occurs during the restriction period, the account will be allowed closing transactions only for a period of 90 days."
 
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