I work for a large investment bank

But not as a trader.
I want to get into trading as i see it every day at work, i have no idea where to start, spreadbetting, day trading, forex.....i have no idea.

So my question is, in your starting up years of trading if you knew then what you know now where would you start your trading life..

Cheers
Daz

In a large investment bank !

What area are you in ? You may be able to move closer to the in house trading activities ?

rog1111

DazKem said:

So my question is, in your starting up years of trading if you knew then what you know now where would you start your trading life..

Cheers
Daz

Click to expand...

DazKem,and you are asking us this question, surrounded as you are by rocket scientists and suchlike persons?

OK now the embarassing part, i work in one of the areas that NO sane person in the whole world would want to work in.
We are treated like scum, the traders (most, but not all) look down there very expensive noses at us..........and i wish i could move closer to the traders depts, i am actually trying to befriend a few....no luck so far....

OK i work in the security department...........and damn do i hate it
So back to my original question......please gents and ladies
Daz

DazKem,

You already have a huge opportunity staring right at you, working for a large investment bank.

Firstly, if you have not already taken your securities institute exams for FSA registration, then I suggest you do so now.

Normally your employer would sponsor you and cover course and exam fees. However, as your current role does not require FSA authorisation, they may not be prepared to cover your costs.

I would recommend that you simply pay for your own course and exam fees off your own bat (show initiative). Once you pass your exam, make a call to your personnel department (like all major investment banks, I am sure you will have one -albeit over-staffed!).

Tell them that you have passed your exam, and that you would like to progress to the front-office /trading room. Ideally you would perhaps be looking to work as a Traders Assistant, booking trades, keeping an eye on p/l, liasing with the back-office ensuring efficient settlement takes place etc.

I am also sure that like all Investment Banks, they will be almost obsessive in giving you an Annual Assessment. This is your opportunity to let them know what you want out of them in terms of career going forward. Use this occasion to voice your desire to work in a trading environment, and move away from the back -office.

This should be your first step. If you show the initiative, demonstrate a passion for the markets, and work your little socks off,.......the world is your oyster!

Where do i find the FSA exam info, and thanks thats very helpful and interesting to know..
One thing, most of these guys and girls are graduates etc, and i am self taught on all aspects of education......BIG problems or not ?

Cheers

Daz

Daz

Remember you can always google for this kind of info:
http://www.securities-institute.org.uk/web/Infopool.nsf/HTML/tSICertificates

One thing, most of these guys and girls are graduates etc, and i am self taught on all aspects of education......BIG problems or not ?

Click to expand...

I've worked in Investment Banks for the past 20 years and in the front-office they love qualifications. More PhDs and MBAs than you can shake a stick at.

Having said that, anything is possible. You really need a couple of breaks to get closer to the business. Just because you don't have the qualifications to get them all starry eyed, doesn't mean that you couldn't work your way towards the business and upwards. It's likely to be a long process.

I don't know much about these trading arcades, but maybe you could get some direct training in the markets from those guys?

Good luck,
Steve

Thanks to all, good info and a warm welcome

Daz

Airthrey, above, has given you what I consider to be very good and wholly sincere advice, because do not forget there are many examples in industry and commerce of persistent tea boys finally having made it to the top. You have everything in front ot you, just get going, that's all.

For reading info, i have been told to read "market wizard" and "new market wizards", "trade your way to financial freedom" and to purchase some videos from someone called Ken Tester, is this also sound advice ?

Daz

No, don't dither with unnecessary literature at this stage, just get cracking and study with a view to passing your exams as a matter of priority, set your goal and stick to it, and don't become distracted
with what at this stage is unnecessary. Just get cracking. Go !

Why don't your ask your supervisor or your supervisor's supervisor. They are the one's with the money and the connections. If they are going to pay for your education you will need to ask them at some point. Why not schedule an appointment with your boss ASAP?

Andy

Why don't your ask your supervisor or your supervisor's supervisor. They are the one's with the money and the connections. If they are going to pay for your education you will need to ask them at some point. Why not schedule an appointment with your boss ASAP?

Click to expand...

Yes! If you don't ask, you don't get! I know someone who did this. I was working @ Goldmans and a junior analyst in the research team I was part of wanted to get into trading. My boss's boss was Michael Sherwood (big big cheese & ex. bond trader). The junior guy saw Sherwood in his office, the door was open and he "went for it". He explained that he had a strong desire to trade and a couple of months later he got a junior trading position.

These guys are all essentially risk takers & hustlers and they are quite likely to respond to a gutsy, direct approach.

Yes, but sometimes this strategy does not work. This is because it may not have occured to you that if the aspirant is good at his job, his employers may want or need to keep him there and not distracted in another direction, I am telling you this because that was my experience.

In my view, he ought to follow the advice given to him by Airthrey, so that when the time comes for him to make a decision to "go for it" he does not "go for it" empty handed, but has something concrete to show his interest has determination behind it.

You cannot complain that I don't tell you everything, but the most important part of what I am telling you is that he must not be misdirected by conflicting opinions, and once his course is set he must proceed along it without wavering. Good luck, and every success !

DazKem said:

OK now the embarassing part, i work in one of the areas that NO sane person in the whole world would want to work in.
We are treated like scum, the traders (most, but not all) look down there very expensive noses at us..........and i wish i could move closer to the traders depts, i am actually trying to befriend a few....no luck so far....

OK i work in the security department...........and damn do i hate it
So back to my original question......please gents and ladies
Daz

Click to expand...

Daz, I wonder if you aren't in a perfect position to observe without being noticed. If you are able to pretend that you have no interest in trading, are dumber than you appear, and have no interest in approaching them, then traders might speak freely in front of you while they are in the elevator, walking to the head, etc....

I have always been amazed at how often 'suits' are able to completely able to ignore support staff. I mean the things people say in front food service, building maintenance, secretaries and security staff, is amazing. (There is probably fodder for a revolution in there if it all got put together - a great blog idea in here somewere....)

Anyway, it's hard for me to imagine that you will meet with anything but a rebuff if you try to "become a suit" without the degree and the connections, but that doesn't mean you can't be a trader and a profitable one. I like to imagine you on the beach most afternoons 10 years from now, while the suits you see today are still working at the bank until closing time every day! Remember they are trading other people's money, and even if they get it right, they probably only get a small percentage as a bonus, and when they get it wrong, they still get their salary. As an individual trader you have an opportuntiy to reinvest and compound your account, and you only need to trade when a setup meets your criteria - these guys/gals probably have to keep their money in play, even when they would rather stand aside. You also will have to personally meet any margin calls, so you can't afford to enter this endeavor on a guard's salary until you have figured out a way to limit your downside.

Your day job provides you with the most important thing you need right now - a means to pay rent and buy food. Those people at the bank have no control over what you do in your free time. I expect your day job does not require all available brain cells, so it's a great time to do your tasks, and let your trading studies simmer on the back burner, so that when evening comes, you can hit these boards, read your books,analyze charts, define and test your setups, and develop your trading plan, etc... You can use your day job as absorbtion time, and take another big knowledge bite each evening.

In my opinion, the most important thing is for you to get a stake together and not play one position until you have a plan together. Get your rent and food and transportation down to the minimums, and start building your stake. There are many free simulators available which can satisfy your desire for action, while keeping your real account safely growing from contributions from your day job. These simulators (or papertrading E.O.D.)can also provide you with a way to see whether your plan is valid- until you can make your simulated account go up consistently there is no reason for you to open a real account anywere.

I wish you all the best.

JO

Yes, jumpoff , that is also an alternative if he wants to do it through the route you suggest. For my part, and I have mentioned this before elsewhere, I do not regret the experiences I had on the floor. They gave me a reality because all these things are experiential. You can read about them in books and have them explained or recounted to you but they are not the same, unless you personally experience things, it is only then that what you might read in a book or hear discussed or see, is recognised with a deeper understanding, and it jumps alive for you. In this regard, therefore, I would say, a ton of theory is worth an ounce of practice.

In hindsight, I realized I am assuming an awful lot. Mainly I assumed that you are completely addicted to the puzzle I call "understanding the market" and that you can not imagine doing anything else but being a trader.

If you want to be a "suit" and work in a bank and drive a bmw, etc... then it's best to ignore my earlier post and figure out how to get your foot in the door there..

JO

OK i've been to the securities Industry web site..................wow, what should i study first.........................sorry for being a bit or alot stupid, but this is the problem i know NOTHING about trading....
It just really intrigues me............

Help, last time of asking i promise

Daz

DazKem,

I work for a company that provides the connectivity to fixed-income markets, so traders use our product day in day out. I know a guy who worked in a bank who was an IT support guy using our product, who befriended a trader and became his trading assistant about 6 months ago, booking trades, viewing RFQs etc.

I will have a chat when I talk to a former collegue of his tomorrow if I get a chance, see what I can find out for you.

On a sidenote, I wonder how many people here I've seen in Canary Wharf without ever knowing it

-TPO.

I just left a bank in Canary Wharf...Lehman Brothers...!!
And my Lady works for Bear Sterns in canary wharf also.........MMMMM taking over from the city i wonder
Thanks and i look forward to hearing from you

Daz