Where do I start?

This is a discussion on Where do I start? within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by Bint_Crusher Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the ...

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Old Jan 12, 2012, 8:09am   #61
 
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Re: Where do I start?

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Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
When do you use a close price in your decision making?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 8:16am   #62
 
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When do you use a close price in your decision making?
Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
THEN After you have done the above
Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
THEN After you have done the above consider below, (and I don't mean your scrotum)
Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
:c ool::coo l:

Last edited by Bint_Crusher; Jan 12, 2012 at 8:19am. Reason: Add the forquin obvious
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 8:27am   #63
 
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Re: Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by Bint_Crusher View Post
Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
THEN After you have done the above
Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
THEN After you have done the above consider below, (and I don't mean your scrotum)
Take a daily chart draw classic support and resistance lines extending to the right taking the high and low of both respective candles drawing another 2 lines extending to the right then you have both the price ranges that have been unviolated call these rprice extremities the candles in control I trade reversals so when the price retraces to this area I consider taking a trade PROVODED THAT THE PRICE DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES< DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<DOES NOT CLOSE OUTSIDE THESE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONTROL ZONES<Iput my trade plan into operation and take that trade considering all the factors within my predetermined trade plan:sl y:
:c ool::coo l:
At which close price do you enter the trade?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 8:42am   #64
 
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Re: Where do I start?

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At which close price do you enter the trade?
Consider the US market daily close price has not sexually violated the controlling price range by that I mean deep penetration CIM close read my previous posts to see my trading methodologeeesse.:smar t:
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 8:47am   #65
 
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Consider the US market daily close price has not sexually violated the controlling price range by that I mean deep penetration CIM close read my previous posts to see my trading methodologeeesse.:smar t:
And this works everytime?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 10:42am   #66
 
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Just a quick note for new traders reading this thread.

It is helpful to see trading as a sport, rather than a fight as some myths portray. Approach it as a sport and you will find yourself in a football game (or cricket match, or any other game you can most relate to). Approach it as a fight and you will find yourself in the middle of a war. It is up to the individual to make their own choice.

Focus on establishing a sound method first, and the returns will follow. Doing it the other way around is not wrong, it is just a much longer path.

I will post later today with some 3d images of the spiral formation I've mentioned in earlier posts. I will also resume giving session numbers for each post on this 'harmony' method of trading so that we can see them more easily amongst other dialogues.

Last edited by PollyM; Jan 12, 2012 at 12:10pm.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 1:23pm   #67
 
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SESSION 11

Attached are some 3d AutoCAD images of a spiral model, using the helix function as the relatively larger or ‘base’ spiral, and then ‘wrapping’ a spline around this helix (in a similar way as molecular models are constructed). Different angles are shown, including end-on (helix5).

As mentioned earlier, beyond two wavelengths, the co-ordinate calculations become very difficult to ascertain through simple drawing, and the AutoCAD version I was using at the time did not have the facility to wrap a helix around a helix.

If anyone knows if AutoCAD now supports such a wrap-around function for helices, or if any other software packages are able to do this, then it would be good to hear from you.

I’ll post again this afternoon …
Attached Thumbnails
helix1.jpeg   helix2.jpeg   helix3.jpeg  

helix4.jpeg   helix5.jpeg  
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 3:39pm   #68
 
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My system works 100% of the time.....

















It's called LOSING.

That brought a smile. Thanks for lightening the mood Kitchen Sink.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 3:42pm   #69
 
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SESSION 12

A word on discipline.

When you are enjoying what you are doing then the word ‘discipline’ does not enter into your personal vocabulary. You will always do it to your best. The enjoyment alone brings about a natural alignment in your actions.

Having said that, if you are feeling very down over a string of losses (and there will be a notable proportion of losses whatever current system you use, as highlighted by Bint_Crusher above), it is very difficult to see how you can immediately jump from that emotion to one of enjoyment. Emotions simply do not seem to work like that, and it can be annoying to say the least when you are down and someone comes along and goes on about what I’ve said in the last paragraph.

You can begin to feel that time cannot pass by quick enough before you make your next trade, even if it’s just to break-even on a losing streak. This thought then brings you down even further. You can begin to care less about the ‘quality’ of your decisions. You may begin to ‘modify’ your trading method, not keeping to the guidelines you set yourself earlier, leading eventually to everything going out the window and you taking a flyer.

One way of avoiding the big downward spiral of emotions is to know what you are doing (again, an obvious statement I know, but it will explain itself as we keep moving on). One way of knowing what you’re doing is to find a method which can be robustly* backtested. If, through backtesting, any particular method does not show a net profit over time then discard it, and repeat this process until you find a profitable method. Once you find a profitable method, adopt this as your benchmark and trade it. In the mean time, you can then keep backtesting further combinations in the background, and if you see improvement in your backtesting results then bring your new method into the proceedings. Keep ratcheting up the effectiveness of your trading method until you feel content in its performance (which will vary from person to person).

*I will discuss what ‘robustly’ means when we come to backtesting in the trading methods section, which should not be long now.

I am currently preparing some screen recordings for the trading methods section, so may be away from the forum for a short while, but will keep looking in if anyone has any queries on what has been discussed so far.

Hasta luego …

Last edited by PollyM; Jan 12, 2012 at 3:53pm.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 2:09pm   #70
 
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In response to sj capital gains can be offset against group relief
Very good due diligence and highly professional
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 4:07pm   #71
 
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Re: Where do I start?

Without wishing to cause any offense to the moderaters::lol :

CIC Candle in Control

I trade reversals, here is a pair I do not trade but this is for illustration purposes.
If the price retraces into the CIC Zone I will consider that trade long.
I will enter that trade according to my trading rules and planning.
I will keep that trade until there is a candle CLOSURE below the lowest limit of the CIC.
This is why Candle CLOSE prices are so VALID: sly:
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Thanks! The following members like this post: timsk
Old Jan 13, 2012, 4:58pm   #72
 
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Originally Posted by Bint_Crusher View Post
Without wishing to cause any offense to the moderaters::lol :

CIC Candle in Control

I trade reversals, here is a pair I do not trade but this is for illustration purposes.
If the price retraces into the CIC Zone I will consider that trade long.
I will enter that trade according to my trading rules and planning.
I will keep that trade until there is a candle CLOSURE below the lowest limit of the CIC.
This is why Candle CLOSE prices are so VALID: sly:
Thanks Bint_Crusher, I can see that close prices are valid for your particular method.

For the method I will be moving onto, the close prices are valid for the backtesting stage, but not with the decision on whether to be long, short or out. This is why I was saying that the high and low prices can be given a primary status, with the closing prices in a secondary role (still having value). I should have better qualified that statement by saying that this was specific to the trading method I am moving onto, rather than make it seem to be a sweeping remark across all trading styles.

Thank you for highlighting this.
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 4:11pm   #73
 
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Just to help keep things simmering, I will be posting on Monday with the first instalment on trading methods. I will also be setting a challenge for this project, keeping track of the results as we move along.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 12:54pm   #74
 
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SESSION 13

Moving onto section two on trading methods.

Imagine you are wanting to learn how to play golf. You've seen it on tv, and the 'feel' of it inspires you to get into the game.

You have a decent amount of money to do this, so you decide to go for it, pay membership to a local golf course, and even possibly take lessons from some experienced golfers. Hopes are high.

On your first visit you decide to start in the driving range. You're amazed. The first few shots go exactly where you thought. You think to yourself how difficult can this be? But as you swing more and more, you gradually start to find that it's not as easy as you first thought. Something's changed, and somehow you begin to involuntarily find yourself in some sort of chaotic situation, trying your utmost to get back to the knack of your first few strokes. What's happening, aarrgghh!!!???!!!

Now, let's rewind for a second and approach this from a different angle. You can call this an alternative or probable future that we are now going to create ...

On your way to the golf shop, ready to get a good bit of kit, you bump into a friend you haven't seen for many years. Lo and behold he's carrying a single wood and a few balls. As you've recently been inspired to learn golf you ask how he is and if he's off golfing.

He replies saying that he's very well, has found a spot of free-time, and so is popping down to the park to swing the club about a bit. You are now in two minds, having noticed an opportunity, a 'fork in the road' so to speak. Because of his casual nature, you find it difficult to gauge how serious he is about golf, how 'good' he is at it … will he even want you go along with him to the park, given that this is his free-time? All sorts of questions are going through your mind, what to do? For whatever reason, you decide to take the plunge and ask if you could go along with him to the park and take turns having a go. After all, you can always go to the sports shop and join the golf course afterwards.

You're now at the park. As more time passes, you begin to realise that your friend seems to be fairly consistent in his hitting of the ball, and can see that most of his strokes lead to the ball ending up in the target areas. Most times he seems to find the sweetspot of the wood, and his movement seems to flow with little effort. You mention this to him, asking about his secret. He replies that there is no secret, it just takes practice and, for him, because he has so many other interests in life, he decided to keep it simple from the beginning by just travelling light with a quality wood and a few balls. After all, he said, you could give a single wood to any one of the elite golfers you know of, and he or she would still find the hole on an average golf course near par, even if he or she had to putt the ball with the wood!

We shall start by keeping it simple. One market, one indicator, one timeframe.

We shall also set ourselves the challenge of seeing if we can do this without even spending a penny.

We will backtest our method first, ensure as far as possible in a pure mathematical sense that it works, and then, once this stage is done, we can venture into the live market (which will be section three in this series of posts).

This is section two on trading methods. Section one dealt with taking time doing groundwork. Section two will now lay a foundation.

I will post again this afternoon. We are going to start with the Relative Strength Index, for the purposes inter alia of introducing the work of J Welles Wilder Jr.

Till then ...
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 4:19pm   #75
 
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SESSION 14

In its presentation alone, the book New Concepts In Technical Trading Systems by J Welles Wilder Jr is a beauty to behold. You can simply see that it has been born out of minds full of love for the work being done.

I shall therefore refer to this publication as a basis for this section on trading methods and, as mentioned in Session 13, will first look at the Relative Strength Index (RSI), one of the most well known indicators in the trading world.

For any reader just beginning out in trading, an indicator is most usually seen as a process or formula which seeks to isolate a particular frequency or wavelength of price movement, so to help highlight the ups and downs of that particular frequency or wavelength, and so, in turn, give guidance on trading decisions. Google around if you need to find out more at this stage; the Wikipedia entries are usually a good place to start, although there are many other sources if you look around. Once you zero in on certain books, you may then wish to buy some for your bookshelf, although it is not absolutely necessary for this stage.

The purpose of this subsection on the RSI is to introduce the software that we will be using throughout for our charting purposes. This will be a spreadsheet, Microsoft Excel if you have that on your system, or OpenOffice if you need to download some new software. I still have Excel 2000, so that or any version after that will most definitely suffice, and possibly even earlier versions will do the job in hand. I was toying with the idea of trying my Acorn Electron (if I still had it), although I can't remember how much programming language the spreadsheet entertained (now most commonly known as source code), and turning all the numbers into charts might just be an ask too far, especially with 32k. Anyway, I digress.

In the beginning, to allow a sensible pace and a moderate degree of volatility (or calmness, depending on how you look at it), we shall choose the daily timeframe. The Daily Work Sheet in New Concepts In Technical Trading Systems (NCITTS) is a basis for this exercise but, to respect copyright, I will choose some different numbers and presentation. Fundamentally, the purpose of this exercise is more to get to grips with using a spreadsheet, rather than focussing on the exact mechanics of the RSI.

For next time, I will start the process of inputting, and provide some attachments to help this along.

Will post again soon …


[Running total of set-up cost = £0.00. See SESSION 13 re spending a penny.]
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