Simple trading system (that works)

Mark Rose

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Hi guys,

Mark from Helios Automated Trading here. I would like to share some of the things I learned while working as head systems developer at Helios. During my career, first as a trader and then later a developer I have developed a large number of profitable systems and hopefully I can pass on something useful to others here.
I thought I would do a series of posts here, exploring a number of popular trading ideas and testing them to see if they actually work, and if they do, how well they perform. There is so much ‘trading wisdom’ available in books and courses, but unfortunately very few of those actually show what works and what doesn’t by testing the trading concept in an objective way.
After describing and testing a trading system, in the next post I am then going to see if the system can be ‘tweaked’ in any way to make it even more profitable.

The classical dual moving average crossover system.

There are few traders who haven’t come across this simple and classic trend following method. A trade is initiated when a shorter term moving average (the ‘fast’ MA) crosses above/below a slower moving average (the ‘slow’ MA). A long trade is initiated on the next open after the fast MA crosses the slow MA to the upside, and a short trade is initiated on the next open when the fast MA crosses the slow MA to the downside.
We are going to test this system on daily bars of the EUR/USD currency pair. Our data set is going to run from 1998 through to 2010. Our fast MA is going to be a 13 period exponential moving average, while our long MA is going to be a 21 period exponential moving average. In this variation of the system, we are going to be always ‘in the market’. In other words, when an opposite signal occurs we are going to exit our present trade and reverse it (for example, we have a long position and then we get a MA crossover to the downside- we then exit our long position and we go short). At this stage, we are not going to use a protective stop loss or a profit target.

System Results:
The system generated 98 trades, of which 33 were winners and 65 were losers. The win/loss ratio therefore was 0.34 but because the winners were substantially larger than the losers, the system generated $65,109 in profits. While this is less than half as profitable as the Helios trading systems, this is not bad and we can see that the MA crossover could be used as a solid base for a good system. Lastly, the maximum drawdown for this system was $20,472, which is important to know if we want to trade the system going forward.
In the next post, I am going to add some stop losses and/or profit targets to see if we can improve the performance of this basic system. In addition, I am going to play with optimising the moving average lengths to see if this has a major effect on system performance. Until next time,

Regards,
 
I see you're head of systems development. How many are there in that department? twenty? five hundred? three million? You sound pretty prestigious to me!
 
I see you're head of systems development. How many are there in that department? twenty? five hundred? three million? You sound pretty prestigious to me!

Thank you for your kind words. We are a small team, unfortunately haven't made it to the three million mark yet, but will let you know when we do :)
 
I'm an idiot and even to me that system looks like complete luck/optimized for backtesting.

If that statement is wrong then that makes me look like an even bigger idiot!
 
I'm an idiot and even to me that system looks like complete luck/optimized for backtesting.

If that statement is wrong then that makes me look like an even bigger idiot!

Hello brewski1984,

You might be being a little hard on yourself. The system parameters (MA values) were chosen randomly, and not based on system performance. In later posts I will explore the effect of altering the parameters, to see what effect it has on performance. Statistically, 98 trades is somewhat significant, in that it suggests that luck isn't the only reason for system performance. In live trading, I would have obviously preferred more but this example is just used to illustrate some trading concepts.

Secondly, what do you mean by optimisation? I believe that optimisation is a necessary part of system design, because all markets behave differently and so have different characteristics that need to be taken into account by a given trading system. Of course, there is a huge difference between proper optimisation and excessive curve fitting.
 
It just seems that with no stop losses and profit targets and now as you say completely random values for the MA's, the $60k profit from substantially higher winners is just luck. Am I being an idiot for saying that? I guess as you say, you haven't got round to adding the stops and targets in yet.
 
I don't think you are an idiot for saying that. Luck is something that can always distort backtested results, and this is why I always test any system on 30% of out of sample data before I start forward testing it. The $60 k profits eventuated even though the majority of the system trades were losers, and this is classical trend following system behaviour. There are some great books that explore the MA crossover system on a variety of markets, including Mechanical Trading Systems by Weissman, and the Ultimate Trading Guide by John Hill, if you are interested. The general consensus is that the MA crossover system works across a broad range of markets, even though it works much better in some markets.

It will be interesting to see how the different MA parameters and the addition of stops and targets change the system performance, because I am sure they will.
 
you can always read the book "get long my schlong" by Dash Riprock Esq.

Mark rose why are you making assertions on behalf of Helios Automated Trading when in your second sentence you state that you were systems developer for Helios Automated Trading in the past tense? It is a subtle irony for the pedants amongst us.

(Mr. Charts that doesn't mean you)
 
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Hi DashRiprock,

I was and still am with Helios. The second sentence referred to experience gained in the past, rather than the fact that I no longer work for Helios. I think you misunderstood it.
 
I am not going to bother responding to comments to someone who makes comments such as "you can always read the book "get long my schlong" by Dash Riprosk Esq". This is a forum for adults, perhaps you are in the wrong place.
 
Hi DashRiprock,

I was and still am with Helios. The second sentence referred to experience gained in the past, rather than the fact that I no longer work for Helios. I think you misunderstood it.

In that case your sentence should read "... I have learned whilst shafting morons who think the "fund" I work for is something other than an imaginary being much like the Sun God my firm takes its namesake from working head as head of systems development as Helios.

happy to help.
 
I am not going to bother responding to comments to someone who makes comments such as "you can always read the book "get long my schlong" by Dash Riprosk Esq". This is a forum for adults, perhaps you are in the wrong place.

It's a good book actually. Some question whether it has the originality of his debut work "Bang Bang My Wang", and others prefer the depth and subtlety of his later efforts such as the classic "Get yo trade on wit' mah weap-on", but for me it is the most insightful of all his literary forays.
 
whaddya mean "forays"???

More like four fingers!

KITKAT!

Indeed.

And who could forget his extraordinary work on trading psychology? I refer of course to the excellent "Trading Without Fear - The Angel Dust Method".
 
Indeed.

And who could forget his extraordinary work on trading psychology? I refer of course to the excellent "Trading Without Fear - The Angel Dust Method".

Did you not notice my vendor badge?! Don't spill the beans, I only have 100 electronic copies!!
 
Interesting thread Mark.

I suggest that you learn how to use the ignore function here. Having been away a while I've had to relearn it and have added both Dash and Pat to my list of people who generate more heat than light. Simply left click on their names and select the ignore list option. There are only a few of them so please continue.
 
Interesting thread Mark.

I suggest that you learn how to use the ignore function here. Having been away a while I've had to relearn it and have added both Dash and Pat to my list of people who generate more heat than light. Simply left click on their names and select the ignore list option. There are only a few of them so please continue.

Fair enough. Although starting a thread with "Hey, I've got some interesting results with an MA cross system that doesn't use stops" is inviting a degree of scepticism, wouldn't you say?
 
Interesting thread Mark.

I suggest that you learn how to use the ignore function here. Having been away a while I've had to relearn it and have added both Dash and Pat to my list of people who generate more heat than light. Simply left click on their names and select the ignore list option. There are only a few of them so please continue.

hi nine :)

(you are probably going to read this seeing as I'm posting straight after you mentioned me specifically).

regarding the "heat than light" reference, or for want of better words "lulz per non-lulz..." well, to be honest, I do believe that the "heat per light" ratio of my posts is pretty much consistent with the rest of the site.

Not to say that the majority of the site is extravagantly lulzy, more that it is pretty much devoid of trade worthy content. Of course I speak only from the experience of the posts and threads I have read, as do you of mine.
 
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