The S&P Chronicles - An Amalagnation of Wyckoff, VSA and Price Action

This is a discussion on The S&P Chronicles - An Amalagnation of Wyckoff, VSA and Price Action within the Discretionary Trading forums, part of the Methods category; Wyckoff and VSA principles at play in today's action: Wyckoff Classic setup (rally back to ice) x 2 Waves Effort ...

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Old Aug 18, 2017, 2:18am   #61
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Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at play in today's action:

Wyckoff Classic setup (rally back to ice) x 2
Waves
Effort vs. Result
No demand

and a Price Action setup

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Old Aug 18, 2017, 9:37pm   #62
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ES 18th August 17

Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at play into today's action:

Climatic bar
Waves
Change of behaviour
Classic momentum setup (pullback in a uptrend, using structure)
No demand in a previous area of supply setup

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Old Aug 22, 2017, 1:49am   #63
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Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at plat in today's action:

Spring
VSA no supply test (setup)
Change of Behaviour (or is it.....)
Climatic bars
Effort vs. Result
Waves

and a price action aberration (sets a contrarian tone)

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Old Aug 23, 2017, 12:34am   #64
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ES 22nd August 17

Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at play in today's action:

Spring
Trend channel
Momentum setup (weak pullback, excellent structure)
Waves
Golden volume/price relationship for Wyckoff/VSA

and a 3 bar inside configuration setup (mini apex)

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Old Aug 24, 2017, 11:38pm   #65
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ES 24th August 17

Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at play in today's action:

Upthrust setup (x 3)
Trending conditions (LH's, LL's)
Waves
Structure (excellent trend channel, entries and exits)
No demand in Wave format

PDF attached (2 pages)
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 2:43am   #66
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Hello feibel,

Once again thank for you time in putting these journals. All your efforts are really really appreciated. Wyckoff and VSA principles are very nicely laid out and you make it so easy.

I think i can reasonably draw decent supply/demand, support/resistance, and channels albeit some times they differ from yours as it is a judgement call.

The ones i don't understand is how to draw local levels/local support that you talk about - for instance in today's journal where you took the first two entries (pic attached)

For most, this might be as basic as abc, but for me it I'm lost. if time permits can you talk about them or at least direct me a place where i can get some material (all i can find is trading straight forward support/resistance material).

edit1: added another example from 22/08/17.- sorry to ask basic questions in some advanced lessons.
Attached Thumbnails
abc.png   bcd.png  

Last edited by novicetrader33; Aug 25, 2017 at 2:53am.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 3:52am   #67
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Originally Posted by novicetrader33 View Post
Hello feibel,

Once again thank for you time in putting these journals. All your efforts are really really appreciated. Wyckoff and VSA principles are very nicely laid out and you make it so easy.

I think i can reasonably draw decent supply/demand, support/resistance, and channels albeit some times they differ from yours as it is a judgement call.

The ones i don't understand is how to draw local levels/local support that you talk about - for instance in today's journal where you took the first two entries (pic attached)

For most, this might be as basic as abc, but for me it I'm lost. if time permits can you talk about them or at least direct me a place where i can get some material (all i can find is trading straight forward support/resistance material).
Appreciate the kind words and feedback, it pleases me the Chronicles can help others.

Wyckoff and VSA may look easy in the Chronicles with ''buy here'', ''sell there'' etc, as I have constructed the Chronicles (the writing style) in most part to be as simplistic as possible, as trading is very taxing on the brain. However, it has taken myself 1000's of hours to be able to read a chart efficiently and even longer to learn the mindset of a trader - 2 completely different skillsets, and i'm still learning if being completely honest. Still to this day I review every trade after hours, once at the weekend and once again at the end of a month. Using a large sample size we can detect positive or negative behaviours in our trading and create a plan to implement the following week, forever evolving in the market place. Now at this point in my trading career, trades literally jump out and its all done via muscle memory, I don't think about the process of trading, its done automatically, this was achieved by creating the correct habits and continual development through practice (which I still do everyday)

There are correct ways to draw support and resistance lines, trend channels etc, however like yourself, I cater for allowances and add little nuances of my own that suit my style of trading.
Back to your question, local support is the low of the first bar that is the first mini pullback after a swing/leg or wave up has been established. It's local because its only relevant to price action from the low of the first pullback, it may only last 5 bars, but still has validity in my opinion. These aren't areas of demand or supply its like a local shelf of support. The majority of traders wouldn't use local levels, perhaps fairly niche, but with the style of Wyckoff and VSA I have adopted we only have market structure for guidance, its the road map to the market and proves to be of extreme value in trending conditions, (helps to jump onboard large moves) or after a wave up and price halts and we can see that price has stopped at the same level (lows) 2 or 3 times, just add a support line, the key factor to remember, the higher the touches the more stable the support, also how does price react? has the market refused to close under a local level for 4 or 5 times, only to reverse back up closing firm, this also adds validity. Rejecting lower prices on a local level of support is extreme strength, (contextually dependent)

Try and study Wyckoffs early works, I think he used the term mini shelf, or perhaps Bob Evans, but nothing is said of value, literally draw them in for a week over all time frames and towards the end you would have drawn 100's and hopefully should become second nature.

Hope this helps,

F

Last edited by Peacefull Warrior; Aug 25, 2017 at 4:02am.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 3:21pm   #68
 
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Originally Posted by Peacefull Warrior View Post
These aren't areas of demand or supply its like a local shelf of support.
This is not entirely true. The point or level at which price reverses IS demand, i.e., the point or level at which enough buyers enter the market to turn price, and it is for that reason that this point or level is important.

Quote:
Try and study Wyckoffs early works, I think he used the term mini shelf, or perhaps Bob Evans, but nothing is said of value, literally draw them in for a week over all time frames and towards the end you would have drawn 100's and hopefully should become second nature.
You are correct that Wyckoff did not speak of shelves. And while he did not address "value" per se, he circled it so much and so tightly that addressing it in particular was not necessary. If one can get past words, Wyckoff's entire course is essentially about auction market theory.

As for studying Wyckoff's works, as opposed to the modifications that were made after his death, I strongly suggest reading his original course, or at least those sections of it which are most pertinent to today's trading environment. These may be found here. I particularly recommend his year-long analysis of a major market average's price movement which begins with post #5. If you don't understand price movement after finishing this analysis, then trading price is probably not for you.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 3:26pm   #69
 
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thanks db, i hadn't seen that!
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 3:55pm   #70
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Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
This is not entirely true. The point or level at which price reverses IS demand, i.e., the point or level at which enough buyers enter the market to turn price, and it is for that reason that this point or level is important.



You are correct that Wyckoff did not speak of shelves. And while he did not address "value" per se, he circled it so much and so tightly that addressing it in particular was not necessary. If one can get past words, Wyckoff's entire course is essentially about auction market theory.

As for studying Wyckoff's works, as opposed to the modifications that were made after his death, I strongly suggest reading his original course, or at least those sections of it which are most pertinent to today's trading environment. These may be found here. I particularly recommend his year-long analysis of a major market average's price movement which begins with post #5. If you don't understand price movement after finishing this analysis, then trading price is probably not for you.


Thank you, however my interpretation is different, as I use demand and supply zones (which of course are contextually dependent) A mini shelf of support, indicates ''buying'' but not a demand zone/area, therefore not as important for my trading, this level will never be recorded. Of course this is discretionary and a mere personal preference

Wyckoffs orginal SMI course is excellent highly recommended, the 1931 case study being a personal favourite, however modern interpretations such as David Weis, Bob Evans, Hank Pruden evolve Wyckoff and from a personal perspective are of extreme value, as professionals its our job to stand on the shoulders of giants and evolve the works, not to become a cardboard cut out. If Wyckoff were alive today with the technology and advancements in trading I am fairly confident we would see a new approach.

Appreciate the feedback,

F
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 4:09pm   #71
 
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Originally Posted by Peacefull Warrior View Post
Thank you, however my interpretation is different, as I use demand and supply zones (which of course are contextually dependent) A mini shelf of support, indicates ''buying'' but not a demand zone/area, therefore not as important for my trading, this level will never be recorded. Of course this is discretionary and a mere personal preference

Wyckoffs orginal SMI course is excellent highly recommended, the 1931 case study being a personal favourite, however modern interpretations such as David Weis, Bob Evans, Hank Pruden evolve Wyckoff and from a personal perspective are of extreme value, as professionals its our job to stand on the shoulders of giants and evolve the works, not to become a cardboard cut out. If Wyckoff were alive today with the technology and advancements in trading I am fairly confident we would see a new approach.

Appreciate the feedback,

F
We'll have to disagree, but it's not my intention to hijack your thread. I've read all the evolutions of W's original work, and none of them seem to understand it, particularly the continuity of price, which is chiefly why nearly all that's been written on the subject over the past fifty years has served to complicate what is at bottom very simple: the interactions between demand and supply.

Best of luck to you.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 4:14pm   #72
 
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Great discussion b/w two Wyckoff protagonists. Good stuff!
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 4:29pm   #73
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Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
We'll have to disagree, but it's not my intention to hijack your thread. I've read all the evolutions of W's original work, and none of them seem to understand it, particularly the continuity of price, which is chiefly why nearly all that's been written on the subject over the past fifty years has served to complicate what is at bottom very simple: the interactions between demand and supply.

Best of luck to you.
There is no right or wrong, just a preference, some have the philosophy ''if its not broken why fix it'', and others like to evolve.
100% agree, the interactions between demand and supply at key structural locations are key and literally the cornerstone of my swing trading portfolio, more or less pure Wyckoff.

Best of luck also,

F

Last edited by Peacefull Warrior; Aug 25, 2017 at 4:46pm.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 11:36pm   #74
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ES 25th August 17

Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at play in today's action:

VSA No Supply test (setup)
Climatic bars/stopping volume
Subtleties of strength
Spring
Upthrust and no demand (setup)
Hidden Buying (Effort vs. Result)
Absorption

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Old Aug 29, 2017, 11:38pm   #75
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ES 29th August 17

Peacefull Warrior started this thread Wyckoff and VSA principles at play in today's action:

Bar by bar Analysis
Spring
No supply test (setup)
Wyckoffian thought process

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