Can you be long and short at same time?

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Old Apr 26, 2013, 9:07am   #1
 
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Can you be long and short at same time?

I follow solely usdjpy on m1 timeframe,
If i take long term long position at bottom of range market,
Can you take short positions while markets take small downmoves within the range?
(I use mt4 with Alpari)

Any advice would be great
Greg
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 10:20am   #2
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

My SB does not allow that but could you trade a different calendar on the futures? ie. trade long spot and short June or August future, perhaps. Although there may be a difference in price level, there may be the same price movement.

Margins and spreads could be different, though.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 10:31am   #3
 
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

IG allow you do it, there a box on the deal tickets called "force through", enables you to be long and short positions together.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 12:46pm   #4
 
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregpearce32 View Post
I follow solely usdjpy on m1 timeframe,
If i take long term long position at bottom of range market,
Can you take short positions while markets take small downmoves within the range?
(I use mt4 with Alpari)

Any advice would be great
Greg
There is absolutely no point if unless you are trading different futures contracts.
If you are trading 1m then its a complete waste of time. If you are 1 short and 1 long your net +/1 will never change and you pay an extra spread for the privilege. Think of it as betting £5 on black and £5 on red.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 1:02pm   #5
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Sorry, but I am in total disaggreement with most of the posts here.

I go bull and bear on the same ticker all the time - it is an iron condor. If you have a flat chart, you can enter a bull put vertical spread with 10% downside protection and bear call vertcial spread with 10% upside protection, in a single trade.

This means as long as the ticker movers less than 10% either up or down, the positions expire with maximum profit.

An outstanding strategy with certain ticker patterns.

Drake
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 1:22pm   #6
 
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

what instrument are you trading and how can you gain by this,you might as well just have one position.The moment you enter a trade the opposite way it totally negates the position if you are using the same instrument and broker,totally no point,period
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 1:24pm   #7
 
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

please give an example of what you do and include the prices,thanks
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 1:28pm   #8
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Lord Flasheart I think graydrake is referring to an options strategy that aims to trade volatility rather than the direction of the market.

I dont know if Gregpearce32 is trading options but if he is just trading normally (outrights) then you're right it is pointless to be both long and short.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 1:42pm   #9
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flasheart View Post
The moment you enter a trade the opposite way it totally negates the position if you are using the same instrument and broker,totally no point,period
Hi Flash,
Whilst I take your general point and agree that your observation would apply to most people, I think there are possible merits in it and am actively experimenting doing just as you describe.

What I'm trying to do is to trade a longer timeframe and, simultaneously, trade any pullbacks in a shorter timeframe. This puts me long and short at the same time on the same - or highly correlated - instrument(s). It's a hedging strategy of sorts, the benefit of which is that I don't need to use stops (other than 'cato' stops) and, I have the potential to turn a profit on the pullbacks as well as the main trend. I admit that putting it into practice isn't as easy as I make the theory sound, but I think the idea has merit and will continue with my experiments on a demo account.
Tim.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 1:48pm   #10
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi3141 View Post
Lord Flasheart I think graydrake is referring to an options strategy that aims to trade volatility rather than the direction of the market.

I dont know if Gregpearce32 is trading options but if he is just trading normally (outrights) then you're right it is pointless to be both long and short.
I was answering the question literally. Nevertheless, it does seem pointless unless one is an option trader and then only covered options. This is just a personal view which I would follow on my own account. Whether it is right, or not, I don't know.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 2:12pm   #11
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

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Originally Posted by Lord Flasheart View Post
what instrument are you trading and how can you gain by this,you might as well just have one position.The moment you enter a trade the opposite way it totally negates the position if you are using the same instrument and broker,totally no point,period
I trade primarily options on stocks in the US markets.

Assume a stock is trading 100 - and you expect the stock will trade in a narrow range until optioun expiration. You sell a bear call vertical at 110/115 amd sell a bull put vertical at 85/90. As long at the ticker price stays between 90 and 110 at expiration, you keep the premium on both trades.

The advantage here over a single trade is that if the stock moves out of your projected range, you will always be a winner on one of the two spreads, so the max loss is reduced if you are wrong by the value of the winner. If you wanted to risk the same amount on 2 trades in one direction and you are wroing, your loss is much greater.

I am trying to start a thread on trading High Probability Credit Spreads, but have not had many people signing up. If interested go to Trading Systems to find this thread.

Drake
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 2:13pm   #12
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Being long ad short simultaneously is often used in commodities trading where the trader is planning to capitalise on the change in the spread.Very effective technique if you understand the particular market eg Corn you could go long the september contract then short the December contract.

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Old Apr 26, 2013, 2:22pm   #13
 
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Hi Flash,
Whilst I take your general point and agree that your observation would apply to most people, I think there are possible merits in it and am actively experimenting doing just as you describe.

What I'm trying to do is to trade a longer timeframe and, simultaneously, trade any pullbacks in a shorter timeframe. This puts me long and short at the same time on the same - or highly correlated - instrument(s). It's a hedging strategy of sorts, the benefit of which is that I don't need to use stops (other than 'cato' stops) and, I have the potential to turn a profit on the pullbacks as well as the main trend. I admit that putting it into practice isn't as easy as I make the theory sound, but I think the idea has merit and will continue with my experiments on a demo account.
Tim.

Tim

How can this benefit you,if you go long and then add in a short then you are flat whatever the movement so whats the point. If you are trading the pullbacks you might as get out the short and just take the long. If it continues down you are just flat for the trade. Ive got to say I cant believe a Man of your knowledge can see anything else.Sorry for being blunt. As the other guy said he must be trading options in which case there might be some merit with time value etc
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 2:24pm   #14
 
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lax_Van_Dumb View Post
Being long ad short simultaneously is often used in commodities trading where the trader is planning to capitalise on the change in the spread.Very effective technique if you understand the particular market eg Corn you could go long the september contract then short the December contract.

Trading mushrooms is the only way forward#
yes that is possible as mentioned if it is different contracts,but we are talking about the same
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 2:25pm   #15
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Re: Can you be long and short at same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flasheart View Post
Tim

How can this benefit you,if you go long and then add in a short then you are flat whatever the movement so whats the point. If you are trading the pullbacks you might as get out the short and just take the long. If it continues down you are just flat for the trade. Ive got to say I cant believe a Man of your knowledge can see anything else.Sorry for being blunt. As the other guy said he must be trading options in which case there might be some merit with time value etc
Flash this is a calendar spread. Check the published definitions and advantages.

Drake
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