Bund Bobl and Schatz Thread

This is a discussion on Bund Bobl and Schatz Thread within the Commodities & Money Markets forums, part of the Markets category; Originally Posted by grantx Buy 'em, "you want to be hitting that size". Could you please clarify. Are you saying ...

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Old Mar 4, 2008, 3:05am   #91
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Originally Posted by grantx View Post
Buy 'em,

"you want to be hitting that size". Could you please clarify. Are you saying if there are, eg 10,000 on the bid, you should sell?

Re spoofs on the schatz, in my limited experience the schatz is the last place you'll see spoofs - the size of some trades is actually larger than many of the spoofs seen on the bund or bobl.

Grant.

Correct you want to be hitting that size but you need to identify 2 things first. #1 be sure it is more than likely a spoof. #2 make sure it is not just flashing but the order is holding for a while (trying to entice people to lean on it). Just watch the orderbook and see what happens when a big spoof sits around too long

Remember if there is a 10,000 lot bid spoofer in the schatz, there is a reason he is spoofing and not just bidding. He doesn't want to actually be long!!! So if he doesn't want to be long he wants to be flat or short (more than likely short otherwise why would you mess around with spoofing and take the risk if you just wanted to **** with people).

Hope that helps
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 3:10am   #92
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Originally Posted by grantx View Post
Buy 'em,

Looked at Openecry - looks a very slick setup. No indication of comm's. Can you give me an idea? Use my pm if more suitable.

Cheers,

Grant.

Grantx

Give me an idea of how many contracts you trade. Then I can help you out. My guess is you are probably going to have like $4.50 rt in eurex if you trade a normal amount of contracts. If you scalp to the extreme like me and trade a lot of contracts during the day then they will work with you on the commisions.
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 12:20pm   #93
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as for the hitting the big 10,000s i wouldnt say thats the best idea, the guy next to me did that once to what he thougt he was a spoof, as soon as he did suddenly 15,000s started loading up behind it. I think the best idea is to try to go with it rather than go against it, even if it is a spoof. My personal opinion anyway
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 12:30pm   #94
 
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yes but sometimes to spoof is there just to "pin" the market, in relation to the other fixed income markets, and when the spoof is pulled, the market moves back in line with the others, hence why they can be good for a move. sometimes.

Its just a case of figuring out what the spoofer is trying to do: Trick or trade.

Obviously easier said than done! Paul Rotter himself said in an interview that if someone wants to get good a trading, they just need to look at the DOM for a very, very long time. He also said to ensure you trade near a toilet. Sound advice!
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Last edited by Directional; Mar 4, 2008 at 12:35pm.
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 12:37pm   #95
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yes but sometimes to spoof is there just to "pin" the market, in relation to the other fixed income markets, and when the spoof is pulled, the market moves back in line with the others, hence why they can be good for a move. sometimes.

Its just a case of figuring out what the spoofer is trying to do: Trick or trade.

Obviously easier said than done! Paul Rotter himself said in an interview that if someone wants to get good a trading, they just need to look at the DOM for a very, very long time. He also said to ensure you trade near a toilet. Sound advice!
I always trade with rubber pants on just to be safe
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 12:41pm   #96
 
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I always trade with rubber pants on just to be safe
I find they chafe a bit, especially when I'm in a butt-clencher of a bund trade!
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 4:34pm   #97
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Do I need charts? What part do they play in the whole setup? (I come from an equities + Forex background where used Price action pretty much alone, and charts were a pre-requisite. I never got involved in L2 scalping).

Perhaps it is my prejudice speaking, but I have always imagined that charts and typical TA do not play an important role in Fixed Income products, all trading is done from the DOM only, and mostly with multi leg spreads - this is a little beyond me just now; I have been trading Schatz outrights.

So, to those with experience, do you use ém? I think I'd find it difficult to go cold turkey, so are they of any use? My guess is that I'd use them to spot S/R, then look for a long/short position and time my entry from the DOM when these are tested; all other times, "lean on size" for a few ticks p/RT. Am i way off mark???

Grant, I think you mentioned using a 2-min chart (this is way below my typical timeframe)... did you find that it added something to your trading? or took away your attention from the DOM?

Buyém; you mentioned patterns off 15min charts (much more up my street); are the skills I've learned from typical PA and patterns in other markets applicable here?

I have been toying with the idea of trying Schatz et al for a while but never got round to STOP trading the rest; It's been 2 days and I am about scratch for both
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 4:35pm   #98
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Do I need charts? What part do they play in the whole setup? (I come from an equities + Forex background where used Price action pretty much alone, and charts were a pre-requisite. I never got involved in L2 scalping).

Perhaps it is my prejudice speaking, but I have always imagined that charts and typical TA do not play an important role in Fixed Income products, all trading is done from the DOM only, and mostly with multi leg spreads - this is a little beyond me just now; I have been trading Schatz outrights.

So, to those with experience, do you use ém? I think I'd find it difficult to go cold turkey, so are they of any use? My guess is that I'd use them to spot S/R, then look for a long/short position and time my entry from the DOM when these are tested; all other times, "lean on size" for a few ticks p/RT. Am i way off mark???

Grant, I think you mentioned using a 2-min chart (this is way below my typical timeframe)... did you find that it added something to your trading? or took away your attention from the DOM?

Buyém; you mentioned patterns off 15min charts (much more up my street); are the skills I've learned from typical PA and patterns in other markets applicable here?

I have been toying with the idea of trying Schatz et al for a while but never got round to STOP trading the rest; It's been 2 days and I am about scratch for both
bugger; pressed the wrong buttonn without saying thanks in advance
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 5:01pm   #99
 
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Please look at Welcome to evoi
evoi, your website looks quite interesting as a concept, but it might be more constructive if you engaged in some dialogue rather than just linking to your site, which you've done in every one of your posts so far.

T2W is not a handy advertising venue, unless you pay for it, and the chat area would not be much of a resource if it was just a forum full of everyones website links, would it?

The idea behind evoi is quite intriguing, but I'd certainly be curious about why a successful trader would want to use a platform like this, and in what circumstances. In the context of trading for a firm, it might be helpful to new grads or trainee's. But for outrights - I'd probably be wary of having a large group of other pro's knowing what I was doing and how much I'd got on in the market and which way round I was.

How is the "consistent traders" rank formed?
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 10:05pm   #100
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Crude, Arbitrageur,

M&S's latest line in ladies' silk underwear is very comfortable (so a friend tells me)

Mr Gecko,

My principal charts (for entry) are 15-tick for the bobl, 25-tick for the bund; 1-minute for the Stoxx. Timing and exit is via the DOM/Time and Sales. 5-min charts are used for short-term trends, sp/rs. 15-min, 60-min and day are also used for sp/rs.
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 10:16pm   #101
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buy 'em started this thread Mr. Gecko

Stick with a 15 min chart or if you like tick charts stick with a 300 tick chart. These will give you surefire support/resistance levels that you can scalp off of.
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 10:17pm   #102
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Crude, Arbitrageur,

M&S's latest line in ladies' silk underwear is very comfortable (so a friend tells me)

Mr Gecko,

My principal charts (for entry) are 15-tick for the bobl, 25-tick for the bund; 1-minute for the Stoxx. Timing and exit is via the DOM/Time and Sales. 5-min charts are used for short-term trends, sp/rs. 15-min, 60-min and day are also used for sp/rs.
Thanks for the help Grantx; I've looked at tick charts before and couldn't make head nor tail of ém , guess I'll have to get better charting :

p.s. are you friends with Paxman???
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 10:20pm   #103
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Mr. Gecko

Stick with a 15 min chart or if you like tick charts stick with a 300 tick chart. These will give you surefire support/resistance levels that you can scalp off of.
thanks mate, I'll check them out.
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 10:31pm   #104
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MrGecko,

My tick charts are in the form of bar charts – very simple to identify potential turning points. However, if buy ‘em recommends a 300 tick, I’ll also take a serious look at this.

Paxman? Who the fucck does he think he is – the Duke of Kent? Talk about being up your own aarse. BBC tossser. End of rant.

Grant.
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Old Mar 4, 2008, 10:41pm   #105
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Hello guys

Met a trader a couple of days ago who said the Bund ( generic 10year yield, he kept saying, whatever that means) obeys s/r and fibs really well. Have you guys ever done this ? This guy trades for a bank btw.

IB offers eurex data for 12 euros I think - if anyone has any experience care to share ?

Grant, hows things up north ? ANy more ground shakes ?

Shamik.
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