Opening a REFCO account from the UK??

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Old Jun 2, 2005, 10:41am   #1
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Opening a REFCO account from the UK??

A very boring post . . . . .

however, I am still trying to open my REFCO account and the staff there are proving very uncooperative. The problem is due to organising the wire for the opening funds. I don't seem to have enough info to complete the operation although they are certain I do. My manager at the Natwest (my UK bank) agrees that the info seems to be insufficient and warns that w/o a REFCO account number or some personal reference the money could go astray.

They have given me a bank name in Chicago with a ''swift code'' for that bank. As far as I understand this is like a sort code for wires. It identifies a bank and it's location and nothing more.

They have also asked me to direct the wire through a Lloyds bank in the UK because I wish my account to be kept in Sterling. They have also given me the ''swift code'' and account number for the Lloyds bank.

Note that they have not given me either an account name for either bank (ie who's account is it?) or a personal reference number so that the funds will be irrefutably be recognised as mine.

I wondered if anyone who has been through this process before could offer any advice? Have they given me enough info to send the wire and the funds we recognised as mine?

Best regards

Fraser
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Old Jun 2, 2005, 10:48am   #2
 
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Why Refco?
Try others
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Old Jun 2, 2005, 11:03am   #3
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fastnet started this thread Indeed. Main reason at this stage is that I have completed (and they have accepted) all the necessary paperwork etc. I am simply trying to send them several grand and it's proving very difficult!!

The other reasons are that I feel this might be an issue common to wiring money abroad so might occur with any broker.

Finally REFCO so seem to have a good reputation and are able to place my spread trades across most markets with low round-trip fee.

Is there any particular broker you could suggest as an alternative? I would like to place my orders by email on MOC/MOO basis. I have no need for hi-tech and memory hungry web-based services and order placing facilities.

Thanks
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Old Jun 2, 2005, 12:00pm   #4
 
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Most use IB but check out brokers thread under "Resources" tab at top of this page.
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Old Jun 2, 2005, 5:42pm   #5
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I think you are right. I would expect you to need the SWIFT code for a bank in the US (they have probably also given you a Fedwire number which may work but Swift code is preferable) You need the bank account name and number of the Refco account at that bank. I think they must have given you this because any customer in the US would need it. It may be in the name of a clearing company rather than Refco itself. You also need to specify "Further Credit to:-" your account name (usually just your full name) and the account number Refco have assigned you in their system. These three specified in addition to the Swiftcode for Lloyds TSB should be sufficient. The hierarchy is

1.Lloyds
2. US Bank
3. Refco or clearers name and account
4. Your name and account no. at refco

I would expect Lloyds to make sure they have checked and understand 2. before they accept the funds. 3. must be correct as Lloyds probably will not know it and without it the US Bank hasn't got a chance. If there is a mistake in 4 then Refco should be able to sort it out as long as your name is there, particualrly if you are pestering them from about 2 days after the wire has gone!!.

It sounds hairy but there are a number of checks in the process if one stage falls down the transaction should be failed and the funds returned. The important word being "should".. Obviously don't issue the wire unless you're happy

Good Luck

Or you could use IB.
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Old Jun 2, 2005, 10:51pm   #6
 
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I had the same problem with Refco. Asked them for proper instructions BEFORE filling in the application form, and didn't get any. So I changed broker, choosing FXCM - identical platform, same spreads, owned by/owner of Refco (I don't remember). However, with FXCM you fund your account by a wire to a UK bank (only ONE bank account, of which you are given all the relevant SWIFT and IBAN codes, and address), and that's it. My account was activated in 3 working days.
Good luck.
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 6:28am   #7
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I had a US based REFCO account for years. No problem with them at all. Went through their Connecticut office. If you are still having problems PM me and I will provide you with a personal contact who will be able to help you out.
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 8:54am   #8
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For an international transfer what you really need from Refco is their IBAN number with the US bank PLUS a sub account reference which nominates your account with them to be the recipient of the funds (arguably the latter might not be absolutely necessary , you could use your name and address as a narrative which should also suffice)...the IBAN number will tell Lloyds the unique number that identifies the REFCO account with the US bank..IBAN numbers have supplanted any need for sort codes , swift codes and account numbers themselves...they contain all of the aforementioned in just the one number ..
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 11:09am   #9
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fastnet started this thread Thanks fellas - really appreciated. I'll read and digest this later today before deciding how to proceed. (no email alert so just read them all in one go)

I have been v patient and polite with REFCO. Now they're simply ignoring my emails!! I think the main problem is that mt $5K account isn't worth the hassle.

I'll call them again this afternoon and try and thrash it out once and for all. After that I'll go elsewhere. It's the thought of completing and waiting for paperwork to be confirmed that has caused me to stick with em so long.

Best regards

FN
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 12:14pm   #10
 
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Don't you sometimes wish a US broker would open a UK office for the collection of UK funds or maybe a UK broker would wake up to the fact that there is a market in direct access out there !
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Old Jun 3, 2005, 12:39pm   #11
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I too have used Refco.

I have found them to be both professional and proactive. I use their NY office though, not the UK one. This is because the NY office offered better rates. The London staff also did not seem as clued up as the NY staff to be truthful!

If you are sending orders to the pit, then I dont think you will find a better alrounder than Refco. IB for example don't even execute pit traded contracts.

I too thought the info Refco gave me was a little vague when I wired my funds over to them. The girl at Lloyds TSB didn't have a clue either as to what needed to go in what box. If you sit down and read the wire form though (yes, I had to resort to actually reading the damn thing - usually they are self explanatory), I managed to work it out myself - not too dificult! Refco had given me the correct info.

All you need from Refco is as follows...

The name of their bank, address and code,

YOUR refco account number, your name.

All you are doing is wiring money to Refco's account where it is segregated from other funds - which is why you need your account details on the Lloyds form.

Good luck - you made a good choice of broker, but maybe the wrong office!

If I have a question, need a quote or execution, I can still call the London office though rather than the NY office which is a big advantage.
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Old Jun 8, 2005, 12:03pm   #12
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fastnet started this thread Thanks again to all who have offered their advice.

Spoke to REFCO again last night (different guy). He assured that I have everything I need. He assured me that REFCO never create account numbers (or ref nos) for their customers before they have wired funds to activate the account.

I'm off down to Lloyds this lunchtime to pit my wits against one of the tellers.

REFCO kept telling me to simply print off their funding instruction and show it to Lloyds staff. . . . . they have more faith than I do!!

Tks again for all your help -

FN
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 11:29am   #13
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fastnet started this thread Last night I finally received notice that my funds have been received and my account opened.

Thanks to all your help and especially TWalker for offering me strings to pull. . . . didn't need to in the end which doesn't detract from the generous sentiment of TW's offer.

Best regards,

FN

PS - Natwest (my own bank) were v helpful in the end. Abbey couldn't help unless you were a customer despite being the UK intermediary for the transaction nominated by REFCO - fair dos.
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Old Jun 22, 2005, 5:20pm   #14
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REFCO to Acquire Global Operations Of Cargill

By Steve Stroth
June 22 (Bloomberg) -- Refco Group Ltd., the world's biggest privately held futures brokerage, said it agreed to acquire the global brokerage operations of Cargill Investors Services for $208 million.
Cargill will receive an additional $67 million to $192 million, based on the performance of the acquired operations, New York-based Refco said today in a statement distributed by PRNewswire.
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