APW Australia Portfolio Wines

This is a discussion on APW Australia Portfolio Wines within the Brokerages forums, part of the Commercial category; Originally Posted by pboyles But what is there to stop you turning up in Glasgow and taking your wine (apart ...

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Old Dec 20, 2011, 11:24am   #91
Joined Dec 2011
Audio Broadcast Re: cellar link

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Originally Posted by pboyles View Post
But what is there to stop you turning up in Glasgow and taking your wine (apart from logistics and the fact that it might not exist)?
P.Boyles - Well firstly there is the tax due on the wine, the handling out fee, and the matter of the outstanding account due for 12 plus months. ALL the wine exists, contact the Managing Director of LCB Glasgow - Alf Allington’ if you don’t believe me. Stop saying the wine does not exist, it’s a blatant untruth.

once our account is settled, the client can have the wine within 5 days of booking its release.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 11:30am   #92
Joined Dec 2011
Audio Broadcast Re: cellar link

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Originally Posted by victorious View Post
Hi wineghost,

Thanks a lot for the advise.

btw, cellar link sue some of us because we walked away from it as the wine is "apparently" overseas.

While in regard to the forwarded cellar link's email below,

1. I notified cellar link prior 24th December 2010 (and i have fully paid until end of 2010), that i want to walk away from it and told them not to charge my credit card. they still try to charge my credit card, and charge me dishonor fee (because i obviously cancelled the credit card).

2. As you can see at their email below:
- my account has been suspended (indeed i can't access my wines anymore)
- my wines no longer insured
- all wines shall be cleared at no reserve

i have no problem with number 2, as that's what i want (walk away from it). but now nearly 1 year latter, cellar link sue me and demand payment for:
- full fees including the insurance fee and portal subscription fees (i was already suspended from the portal, and they said the wine is no longer insured)
- dishonor fees (not only one, as they tried multiple times)
- interest
- filling fee
- service fee
- anything else i may missed out.

where is the justice here? Anyone has any inputs on this?

also, according to the cellar link's email, they're actually trying to sell the wines, but i've never ever received any money from cellar link.

Thank you very much.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
xxth January 2011

Dear xxx,

Cellar Link Account Name: xxx
Cellar Link Account ID: xxx
Amount Due: $xxx


We refer to our previous communication of 24th December 2010, where we informed you that we had issued the invoices below and the amount payable was due. We would like to inform you that we were unable to withdraw the amount due from your nominated credit card or bank account on the 4th January 2011 as the payment was dishonoured. Please note a $40 dishonour fee has also been applied to your account.

Invoices due:

Storage 2011, by Location (quarterly or annually as applicable to your module)
Brokerage listing fee (as applicable to your module)
Global Wine Management Portal (GWMP) subscription fee (as applicable to your module)

All of the above are available now on the Global Wine Management Portal. Once logged in, you can view the PDF invoice(s) by selecting 'my finances' and then 'statement of account'.

Please note if your account is overdue, your account is immediately suspended and therefore your wines will not be insured (Refer to clause 14.5 in Cellar Link’s Terms & Conditions) and we will not be able to process sales in your account.

Any account remaining unpaid, shall without further notice be subject to a lien on all its stock, whereby stock shall be cleared at no reserve. (Clause 12 in Cellar Link’s Terms & Conditions).

If you have paid your outstanding account before this email reaches you, please disregard this notice.

We would also like to remind you that:

Trade Sales Payments

Proceeds for sales that have occurred up until the 3lst December 2010 will be remitted commencing the 28th of January, 2011. As we remit quarterly, for sales that have occurred after the 3lst December 2010, the remittance will be received by clients in the next trade sale payout period on the 28th April 2011. At the same time that we remit the funds to our clients, an invoice will be uploaded on to your account which will detail the specifics of the sales that have been transacted on your behalf, such as the price the wine was sold for, any taxes etc.

In order that payments and debits are always made to you on time, please ensure we have up-to-date credit card and bank details on file for you.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Team on 1300 270 110 or +61 2 8622 5000 (if overseas) during office hours 9am-5pm AEST.


Yours sincerely,


Eamonn P. Egan Sig

Cellar Link Pty Ltd

Eamonn Egan
Managing Director
ABN: 45 132 635 842
victorious - interestingly - not once did you read the contract, you can’t walk away from the wine and close your account, you must remove the wines from the warehouse, in order to close your account, read clause 22. Its headed termination. Here’s the link: Cellar Link - Terms & Conditions - Super Premium wine, Fine & Rare Provenance Wines, Wine on Sale
If you buy wines which are ultimately unsalable in any market then it’s your issue to deal with, I am happy to assist where I can, but it’s no different to buying a lemon of a house…. And I did not sell you the wines! You seem to forget that easily.
If you want further advice please do reach out.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 1:59am   #93
 
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Re: cellar link

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Originally Posted by Eamonn Egan View Post
but it’s no different to buying a lemon of a house…
Exactly! It's the same as a "lemon" house, and a "lemon" house can be sold at no reserve.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 5:11am   #94
Joined Dec 2011
Audio Broadcast Re: cellar link

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Originally Posted by floater View Post
Exactly! It's the same as a "lemon" house, and a "lemon" house can be sold at no reserve.
Floater - Yes, if sold to a willing buyer, I presume you have heard of the term PASSED IN, and of course you have taken into account the other 13,000 “houses” (aka wines) in the same row all up for sale at the same time, with NOTHING to differentiate them.

Now which one would you choose to sell? Or in fact by for that matter?
We sell wines like this on a FIFO Basis (FIFO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), first in = first out. Another term I am sure you are familiar with !

And of course then there are the taxes the client has not paid in advance to be paid for, so how would you propose that selling at ZERO reserve will in fact pay them. I suppose you would like Cellar Link to indemnify the client and help them avoid their responsibilities in this regard also. If the goods cant be sold “in bond” then they have to be sold retail (all taxes paid).

What would you propose. I am happy to hear your opinion on how you would achieve the best outcome for the client in this particular situation?

Stop the pernickety comments and come back with something meaningful, unless of course that’s all you have to offer.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 1:05am   #95
Joined Oct 2006
Re: cellar link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eamonn Egan View Post
Floater - Yes, if sold to a willing buyer, I presume you have heard of the term PASSED IN, and of course you have taken into account the other 13,000 “houses” (aka wines) in the same row all up for sale at the same time, with NOTHING to differentiate them.

Now which one would you choose to sell? Or in fact by for that matter?
We sell wines like this on a FIFO Basis (FIFO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), first in = first out. Another term I am sure you are familiar with !

And of course then there are the taxes the client has not paid in advance to be paid for, so how would you propose that selling at ZERO reserve will in fact pay them. I suppose you would like Cellar Link to indemnify the client and help them avoid their responsibilities in this regard also. If the goods cant be sold “in bond” then they have to be sold retail (all taxes paid).

What would you propose. I am happy to hear your opinion on how you would achieve the best outcome for the client in this particular situation?

Stop the pernickety comments and come back with something meaningful, unless of course that’s all you have to offer.
You do realise that these attempts at online reputation management rarely work.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 1:42am   #96
Joined Oct 2006
Re: APW Australia Portfolio Wines

No win no fee service for wine scam victims.

Wine Investment Claims Milton Keynes, Resolved Claims Limited
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Thanks! The following members like this post: rodcar
Old Dec 23, 2011, 1:49am   #97
Joined Mar 2005
Re: APW Australia Portfolio Wines

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Originally Posted by pboyles View Post
No win no fee service for wine scam victims.

Wine Investment Claims Milton Keynes, Resolved Claims Limited
"Typically once vintage wines have been bottled they will then be stored in a bonded warehouse in a temperature controlled environment for a further period of time which means that many investors never physically see their investment for a long period of time if at all before it is sold. These extended time frames are not only good for the quality of the wine they also serve a use to the fraudster"

quote from the website
sound words indeed.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 1:13pm   #98
 
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Joined Dec 2011
Re: APW Australia Portfolio Wines

Hi,
I'm Alex. I have no affiliation with anyone. I have bought wine from CellarLink UK in the past - quite a bit in fact. I have the good fortune not to have been involved with any wine "investments" - I own 10,000 bottles and my collection is probably worth quite a bit - but it's not an investment. The cost of storage and the eye watering costs of sale make investing in wine crazy: the underlying value needs to appreciate by 40% just to breakeven! If you want to invest in real assets I'd humbly suggest you try commodities, watches, houses - basically anything that isn't wine. If you *really* want to: buy LVMH stock, the transaction costs are 2% (so, wine has 20x higher transaction costs) and they own a bunch of good high end wine brands - if wine prices keep going up, you'll make money.

CellarLink do have real stocks of wine. Tons of them. They are indeed in LCB Glasgow. If you have wine stored on your behalf there, you want to move them & have the contractual option of transferring them, but don't know where to go, I'd recommend LCB's own service at Vinotheque (Welcome To Vinotheque) or the Locke-King Vaults at EHD (EHD London No.1 Bond - bonded wine warehouse and distribution company).

The Australian wine market in Europe is indeed really, really bad. Whether it is as bad as the prices CellarLink are currently selling some bottles at suggest, I doubt it - but that's just my personal opinion. That's between them and the owners of the wine. If I personally were try to sell the same bottles and maximise value (which I am not), I would probably use a UK auction house like J Straker, Chadwick (J.Straker, Chadwick & Sons) or a web auction like Bid for Wine (Bid for Wine :: Online Wine Auctions :: Fine Wine, Rare Wine, Bin Ends and Vintage Wine. Buy wine from and sell wine directly to other users.) *for disclosure, this is run by an old University friend of mine.

CellarLink are indeed difficult to deal with. From personal experience I have emailed them regarding orders, delivery logistics, etc and received no reply and my requests were not actioned. They have been very good at arranging the mechanical process of delivering ordered wine to the address specified - everything else, IMHO, not so good. I have an outstanding issue with them which I will not comment on in public at this stage.

Calling Eamonn or anyone else a fraudster is not helpful; I don't have enough information to know if he is, but he has generally supplied the goods I purchased: that's more than I can say for every purported wine merchant out there. Whoever *sold* you wine was probably a shyster and the buyers were guilty of investing in a market in which they had little or no knowledge. Any estoteric investment should be treated with a strong mix of fear and scepticism (I speak as a Hedge fund manager).

I haven't read enough of this thread to understand the nature of the contract most wine owners have with CellarLink, but I hope the above post helps clarify some alternatives and options. I'm happy to try and answer any questions you have. Just bear in mind that I am buying a material amount of the wine that is being sold and therefore despite trying to be helpful, I am probably inherently conflicted.

Best,
Alex W.

Last edited by alexwuk; Dec 23, 2011 at 1:28pm.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 6:13pm   #99
 
6 Posts
Joined Dec 2011
Re: APW Australia Portfolio Wines

Having read a little more, I can add the following:

Tax. Britain has two taxes on wine. One is a fixed price per bottle (duty) and is around £1.80 per bottle. The other is VAT and is a percentage of the sale price (20pct) if the sale price is low, therefore the tax is low...

Wine can be sold In Bond and therefore free of tax, provided the buyer has a professional storage facility (most serious ones do).

Thinking about this a little more, if anyone is being charged storage and just wants a disposal, feel free to contact me and I can see if I can bid for the wine on a tax free basis. Again, remember I'm by definition conflicted in that case as my interests would be for a low sale price. Caveat vendor, but maybe I can help some people out. I'm probably one the five biggest cellar link buyers in the UK. Having read this thread, im not feeling so great about that right now.

Best,
Alex
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 6:29pm   #100
Joined Oct 2006
Re: APW Australia Portfolio Wines

Have you actually personally received any of the wine you bought? I mean picked it up or had it delivered to you home?
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