Joe Ross Trading Seminar & Course

Instead of passing on a bunch of false rumors about me, why didn't you come to see me trade live in London last year? I have and will trade live in Munich, Germany, Ravenna Italy, Sao Paulo Brazil, Montevideo Uruguay, Johannesburg, South Africa, and Prague, Czech Republic.

Why don't you show me your account? Why do you hide behind that silly name you have chosen for this forum?

I have never in my life traded an account under my own name. I have always traded an account under the name of Second Chance Ministries, International. I have no permission from the board of directors of that church to reveal the details of the trading account. But I can tell you this much, it is substantial in amount. Probably considerably larger than any account you are trading.

The Bible has a word for people like you who are nothing more than rumor mongers. It says, that such persons will never enter the Kingdom of God. You may or may not believe in God, but I do. I conduct myself and my ministry in accordance with my beliefs. Trading Educators stands for truth in trading. That includes live trading in front of audiences.

I continue to post educational information in T2W for those who choose to benefit from it. If it has no value for you, then you can ignore it. There are other critics on this forum who choose to bad-mouth me. They are people who like to complain, argue, and take issue with anyone who posts here. That is a shame, because it demeans the T2W forum.

When you state, without a shred of proof that I am not a trader and have never traded, you cheat those who might benefit from my 50+ years of trading experience. People like yourself would never be allowed to post in my own forum. There we allow only positive, informative, educational and truthful posts. No whining, no complaining, no bad-mouthing anyone.

You owe me an apology. Are you adult enough to post one?

JR

Joe has gotten GOD on his side - quake in ye boots ye miserable sinners. :cheesy:

Besides it's Christmas so how about a ceasefire on Joe and others like him for the festive week?

Joe's stuff IMO for the main is good sound advice. Copying another's disciplined approach can only be a good thing. It's not his fault nobody heeds advice. As I have said before the reason most traders lose is

BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.

Merry Christmas!
 
Besides it's Christmas so how about a ceasefire on Joe and others like him for the festive week?

Christmas is for poor people and religious nutters, so no, there will be no ceasefire on spammers and charlatans :LOL:
 
Audited Track Record

So, Joe. Do you have an audited track record or you don't?

Yes I do have an audited track record. The church account that I trade is audited regularly. Do I have one personally? No! I have never traded an account in my name.

JR
 
And how can we see it? How can we make sure that above claims (which you called bad-mouthing) are not substantiated?

And why using religious institution to trade markets? Why not a normal hedge fund or some sort of managed account? What is the problem of trading in your own name?
 
I read that:

1) The core concepts of religion are about redemption through good works and giving without counting the cost.

2) The nature of trading is about acquisition by taking off others at their cost.

As such the two are about as far apart from each other as is spiritually possible.


Paul
 
I tried to google in order to find the bad review mentioned above - I couldn't. The suggested link didn't lead anywhere.

But, apart from that, it seems strange that there are only positive reviews, mostly written or co-created by Joe Ross himeself. Those that are written by others do not offer much insight into trading methods and estimates of their effectiveness. Endless tiradas about clear explanations, good teachings and Ross's genuine willingnes to share experience. Very big emphasis on intuitive side of trading, spiritual side of trading, personalised trading style and so on, which is objectively non-measurable and non-detectable success.

Ross's objection above "why don't you come and see how I trade on seminars?" is sort of very self-fulfilling. You have to decide for yourself whether to spend money on the seminar first and only then see how well he trades. I guess, after you've gone all the way to the seminar, you will feel ashamed to admit it was useless and that you were fooled.

This is, however, how any education works. You choose university, find money, pay and go through the courses without any possible refund and the success is uncertain, employment is not guaranteed. And there are plenty of bad tutors and useless courses. But there are still some tools you can resort to. For example, you can find alumnis and see where they are employed. You can obtain course transcripts and investigate each tutor's papers and achievements. And all the papers are peer-reviewed, double-checked, heavily critisised. Even after this measures there are plenty of absent-minded and remote from reality guys who just need to have students.

But what we have in Joe Ross's case? He is an employer of himself. So, no selection process, no double-checks, no peer reviews, no interviews and no debates about his abilities. After that no negative feedback is physically possible to submit anywere on his web-site. They have strict rules on their forum that only praises to the Master Trader are ever allowed in.
A lot of people say that they become profitable or successful in some way after his teachings. I cannot possibly verify that. Any famous trader-billionaire can reveal that he achieved everything owing to Ross's teachings? Joe himself can show trading statement?

I am not saying that his books/seminars are useless. I am just not able to verify that at all. The materials I have seen seems very subjective and specifically designed to sell. But that ay be my personal erroneous impression.

I would suggest to set up freedom of speech on their web-site, allow critisism and real feedback, work closely with it, reveal more information, show measurable success and the courses will start selling themselves without slogans/banners and endless sell pitches.
 
And how can we see it? How can we make sure that above claims (which you called bad-mouthing) are not substantiated?

And why using religious institution to trade markets? Why not a normal hedge fund or some sort of managed account? What is the problem of trading in your own name?

I suggest you post to the persons who bad mouth me and ask them to substantiate their claims.

Who invited you into my life that you feel you have a right to question the way I trade, my lifestyle? None of what you ask is any of your business. I will not respond to anymore of you silly posts.
 
Who invited you into my life that you feel you have a right to question the way I trade, my lifestyle? None of what you ask is any of your business. I will not respond to anymore of you silly posts.


Its YOU who "invited people into your life" by effectively spamming a public forum pimping commercial products (which is probably all a bit of a waste of time as every single book will be avalable for download from some scroats site)

You are a VENDOR of commercial products, defending your position goes with the territory, and its the cost of marketing on the cheap, so live with it, or pay for advertising
 
Its YOU who "invited people into your life" by effectively spamming a public forum pimping commercial products (which is probably all a bit of a waste of time as every single book will be avalable for download from some scroats site)

You are a VENDOR of commercial products, defending your position goes with the territory, and its the cost of marketing on the cheap, so live with it, or pay for advertising

:rolleyes: :)
 
I do pity the bunch of whining maligners (and you know who you are). IF you think you can elevate yorself by tramping on someone else, you are in deep trouble (Odds are, your account will reflect it. Odds are, you think your broker, or bookie if you haven't graduated yet, is out to stiff you constantly. No doubt everyone else is responsible for your dire results)

About Joe I will say:
a) I don't agree with everything he writes and says
b) Many of the things I didn't use to agree with I now agree with, after much pain of learning
c) He has written some phenomenal books, articles and courses
d) His material is very clearly written. It is simple, but not simplistic. Some simpletons (you probably don't know who you are ) do not know the difference.
e) In person he is a great presenter and is well loved by a large group of people. His wealth of experience is evident. Of course he charges for seminars. How else do you keep the numpties out? A thousand or so bucks is a bargain for the knowledge and even more a of a bargain to spend time with positive supportive humble people who are willing to learn and share.
f) He has always maintained that it takes several years to become a half-competent trader. He does provide some methods that a DISCPLINED newbie can successfully implemement while learning. This will give you a chance to keep learning while not losing too much. If you buy one of his methods and it doesn't work for you, he offers a no-questions asked refund. (Of course, I could give you a failsafe set of signals every day and if you're inexperienced/ emotionally unstable / too busy finding fault before finding the facts / lazy/ stupid/ arrogant then you will botch it every time, lose all your cash and blame the perfect set of signals instead of saying to yourself 'I'm an idiot. How can I change that?' )

g) I have seen Joe trade and he does what he says he does, plans like he says he plans and it works more often than not, just like he says it does. He has always maintained that trading is a messy sloppy business. If you want absolute certainty, then pick another endeavour. {{ If you want something that works 100% of the time, then try complaining and maligning others while denying personal responsibilty. It will 100% GUARANTEED diminish the quality of your life and as a special bonus, you will attract into your life other whingers to support your world view.}}

h) If you ever expect to master anything worthwhile in two days, then you are silly. After spending 2 days in a seminar with Joe, my eyes were opened and I knew more stuff than I did before. I then spent 2 months going over charts, reviewing, practicing before I internalized some of the material. I could implement one pattern very well after a couple of weeks and using this I increased an account by 18% in a month, doing less than 5 day trades a week. Simple, not simplistic.
i) Expecting to learn everything you ever need to know in a couple of days is a bit like walking up to Eric Clapton and asking him for the secret to playing the guitar really well. And then expecting to play perfectly the first time you pick up a guitar. And then tell everyone that Eric is a no-good lying phony.


Joe, thanks for your contribution to the trading world and to my own development.

Happy New Year to you all, even the whingers :)
 
Great, informative, polite review!

Everybody keeps emphasizing that they all missed some super-important information on the first read and only understood it after re-reading it at least 10 times. So much for clarity!

You can become successful trader only after 10 years of studying and practicing and not in 2 days. So much for eye-opening aspect!

It helps only to some people, not to whingers. And it helps in non-anticipated ways. Only after "internalising" it, tuning it for yourself and mixing with something else. So much for objective value of it!

Any critique is desctructive, no doubts about that. Whingers like me indeed diminish quality of life of others and spoil the fun and all this stuff. I do admit that number of people who could benefit from 50+ years of Joe's trading experience might fall at least a little bit. And the world could be better without me, I know...

Please, BigDrew, give me a failsafe set of perfect signals so that an arrogant idiot like me gets defeated and everyone's eyes get open.

Not trying to destroy Christmas spirit or offend someone's feelings, but according to above descriptions Joe Ross's materials remind me something of a religion.
 
Me, I like a good grumble every now and then. Just had a good one at 2.01pm today ;) Apologies if I offended anyone's sensibilities. This flame-throwing business is draining.

Anyone read Malcom Gladwell's latest book ,'The Outliers?' He repeats the theme that mastery of anything takes about 10 000 hours. Caveat emptor, always.

I better get back to logging some more screen time. Only got one more day to get my needed number of hours in before the year's up.

Be well all, irrespective of religious persuasion.
 
There is an interesting story I have just discovered.

According to
Trading Educators Inc. - Joe Ross - Day Trading and Online Trading

Trading by the Book has received rave reviews in the Club 3000 newsletter. It was named a "Book of the Year" by Super Trader's Almanac, and received a very strong endorsement from Bruce Babcock in the Commodity Trader's Consumer Report. Bruce said it this way: "This is one helluva book."

The problem is - it is only one sentence from the whole report.

I have found the report and read it. To summarise:
Bruce Babcock
1) gives some favourable comments about Joe's books, mostly in the form of "heluva lot of ideas to try", there is some useful material, plenty of illustrations and topics covered, although the books seem to be overpriced,
2) expresses doubts on whether the ideas actually work,
3) finds a few places where definitions are not clear and very subjective (segment counting method, for example),
4) points out that money management principle of TTE us totally wrong (just as I said in another post), using this as an example, Bruce actually argues that Joe Ross doesn't seem to be an experienced trader and TTE methods reveals him as a novice.
5) expresses serious doubts whether Joe Ross is trading, trading profitably or trading with as many as 25 contracts etc. as he was asked several times to provide any evidence of it no matter how limited and confidential. Bruce concludes that there is significant risk to buy and use Joe Ross's books as all trading recipes have to ba taken on faith and it is very difficult to backtest Ross's ideas.

Full text can be found here:
Bruce Babcock, Reviews of Trading By the Book, Trading By the Minute, and Trading Is A Business by Joe Ross

Of course, one can argue that the text is not genuine, but there is another link refering to Bruce Babcock's report as beign negative:
Traders ezine

You are quite a magician, Joe Ross!:clap::clap::clap:

P.S.: if the link to the full text doesn't open, I can post the text here, but it is a bit lengthy...
 
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