Brexit and the Consequences

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,467 2,391
Really, I thought you were a fan of the tories? Why is your Leadsom still in the cabinet?

You reckon she's been primed for leadership then?
I wish you would unscramble your brains and make coherent points. Timsk, SigCalc and H have the same problem trying to fathom out what your on about. So it's not just me is it!
 
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Atilla

Legendary member
18,774 2,617
I wish you would unscramble your brains and make coherent points. Timsk, SigCalc and H have the same problem trying to fathom out what your on about. So it's not just me is it!
Point remains if I recall you were a fan of Leadsom and wanted her to be the next PM.

She is in cabinet pushing a deal with collective responsibility hoping Parliament will accept the withdrawal deal.

Recently you said you'd like to see Raab. Raab worked on the same withdrawal as Brexit secretary but only to resign post when he thought he might cause maximum damage to shift TM and obviously considering him self to be a worthy potential PM.

You keep going through names like nobodies business and then say I told you so. You haven't mentioned Moggy for some time either. Wasn't he one of your favs at one point or another also?

And what happened to we are leaving on the 29th March with no deal you repeated over and over and over again?


Your well funni (y)
 

hhiusa

Senior member
2,683 138
Somebody is splitting hairs. March 29th vs. April 12 seems like a moot point. The markets certainly won't care if a no deal Brexit happens only two weeks later.

Markets: "wait, Theresa May pushed the Brexit by 14 days so all things that would happened on the 29th; yeah, they're no longer a worry 14 days later. Just kidding!

That's like saying, "your honor, I only stole £50 billion, not £51 billion." After which, the judge will look at you cross-eyed and say, "so what!"

14 days, 14 minutes ... "so what!"
 

hhiusa

Senior member
2,683 138
You have to love Jeremy Clarkson and company. That's probably very true. The young in the UK vote Labour. The young in the US vote Liberal. Although, there is a growing contingent of conservative youths in both countries. :unsure:
:p

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cantagril

Senior member
2,132 476
Whoever said (I do know who here) that the problem with the first Brexit was that people were uninformed/misinformed. HELLO! welcome to democracy!

They said it may be a problem with students, young voters, etc. There is no corruption in the process. Not everybody in society is smart or even average for that matter. Expecting a rational result in an election is to expect every single constituent to be intelligent, rational, well-informed adults.
Agree completely, with the qualification that (like with товарищ Trump) an election, by definition, is one that chooses the people's representatives to manage the country for them precisely because the vast majority of them are too ignorant, uneducated and generally stupid to be able to manage their fridge, let alone something more important than beer and pizza storage.. In the case of the referendum, these same people were asked their opinion - they gave it... and the pizza has gone moldy and the dog nicked the beer.

It's not the result that's a shocker but that some one should come up with the idea that asking the same people who aren't allowed anywhere very near indirect democratic government to now fire up the odd neurone they might have and make a considered judgement of something about which they know considerably less than fuck all and thereby decide the fate of the nation.

As is completely predictable, the inevitable will happen as it always does/must and we will be able to look back and say to ourselves that it's déja vu all over again, again.

(Pace Mr Berra)
 
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NVP

Legendary member
36,535 1,842
most of the European elections will show the increasing diversity in views of the people.....my general feeling is (like the UK) a lot of the citizens will vote against the current regimes and leadership parties in place as they have historically inflicted (perceived) unnecessary hardship on themselves and their families and local communities whilst seemingly rewarding other more (perceived) "privileged" citizens......

the increasing popularist vote is a vote to change things...... regardless of the many benefits and advantages that the current regime in place has provided......the negatives apparently outweighing the positives to these "failed" groups of society

A cynical view would say that in this increasingly "Nil responsibility" culture....it is far better for much of the population to drag everyone else down to their own unsuccessful levels than try to recognise ones own shortcomings and try to take responsibility to improve ones selves with commitment , hard work , discipline and fortitude.....

I cannot help thinking that the generations of lost jobs in defunct and archaic industries across a lot of the UK is the reason why Brexit was enacted .....a final 2 fingers up by the older generation (who didnt want to change) to the governments that helped make this happen and 2 fingers up to the british citizens that actually got their shit together and worked hard to improve their own circumstances despite such hardships and changes that we all had to make.....

happy days..........

N
 
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cantagril

Senior member
2,132 476
I cannot help thinking that the generations of lost jobs in defunct and archaic industries across a lot of the UK is the reason why Brexit was enacted .....a final 2 fingers up by the older generation (who didnt want to change) to the governments that helped make this happen and 2 fingers up to the british citizens that actually got their shit together and worked hard to improve their own circumstances despite such hardships and changes that we all had to make.....

happy days..........
N
So, all fingers and no thumbs?:)
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
. . . I cannot help thinking that the generations of lost jobs in defunct and archaic industries across a lot of the UK is the reason why Brexit was enacted .....a final 2 fingers up by the older generation (who didnt want to change) to the governments that helped make this happen and 2 fingers up to the british citizens that actually got their shit together and worked hard to improve their own circumstances despite such hardships and changes that we all had to make....
Hi NVP,
I don't doubt that there is some truth in what you say, but I don't think the reasons you give explain the bulk of the leave vote. The pollsters and analysts tell us that the older working class generation accounted for a large part of it. However, to label them as being (part of) 'failed groups' is not correct. Of the brexiteers on T2W, I've met c_v and dentist 007 on a number of occasions and, whilst they may describe me as being part of a failed group, I can assure you they most certainly are not!

I don't think the reasons behind Brexit are that complicated. Sure, people voted leave for a whole bunch of reasons, but the chief common denominator is the recognition that the EU is another layer of bureaucracy overlaid on top of our own government over which they have minimal control, all the while being marched towards an ever deepening political union in a bid to create the Unites States of Europe. 52% of the population don't want that. Actually, my personal view is that that figure is much higher, because many of those who voted remain did so on the basis of 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't' and a fear of the consequences of Project Fear. Now the truth is out; project fear failed to materialise and most people are much better informed about the EU now than they were three years ago (i.e. they are much more aware of it's agenda, weaknesses and failings). On that basis, in the event of another referendum, I fully expect the leave majority to increase.
Tim.
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,236 1,539
Hi NVP,
I don't doubt that there is some truth in what you say, but I don't think the reasons you give explain the bulk of the leave vote. The pollsters and analysts tell us that the older working class generation accounted for a large part of it. However, to label them as being (part of) 'failed groups' is not correct. Of the brexiteers on T2W, I've met c_v and dentist 007 on a number of occasions and, whilst they may describe me as being part of a failed group, I can assure you they most certainly are not!

I don't think the reasons behind Brexit are that complicated. Sure, people voted leave for a whole bunch of reasons, but the chief common denominator is the recognition that the EU is another layer of bureaucracy overlaid on top of our own government over which they have minimal control, all the while being marched towards an ever deepening political union in a bid to create the Unites States of Europe. 52% of the population don't want that. Actually, my personal view is that that figure is much higher, because many of those who voted remain did so on the basis of 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't' and a fear of the consequences of Project Fear. Now the truth is out; project fear failed to materialise and most people are much better informed about the EU now than they were three years ago (i.e. they are much more aware of it's agenda, weaknesses and failings). On that basis, in the event of another referendum, I fully expect the leave majority to increase.
Tim.
When you say project fear has failed to materialise you're jumping the gun a bit are you not? We're not even out yet - let's see what happens when we are. Even then we won't really know for 10 years or so whether we've been seriously wounded or not.
 

NVP

Legendary member
36,535 1,842
Totally understand people responses ....and I would never label everybody who voted Brexit into that group I identified in my earlier post....I was just trying to define a body of people who (possibly / probably) took the vote across to the leavers "majority"

so apologies if this was interpreted incorrectly .....
 
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NVP

Legendary member
36,535 1,842
When you say project fear has failed to materialise you're jumping the gun a bit are you not? We're not even out yet - let's see what happens when we are. Even then we won't really know for 10 years or so whether we've been seriously wounded or not.

dont know about others here but i hav'nt really got the luxury of 10 years to write off in that experiment 52% of the country have voted for !!
 

NVP

Legendary member
36,535 1,842
When you say project fear has failed to materialise you're jumping the gun a bit are you not? We're not even out yet - let's see what happens when we are. Even then we won't really know for 10 years or so whether we've been seriously wounded or not.

dont know about others here but i hav'nt really got the luxury of 10 years to write off in that experiment 52% of the country have voted for !!