The Journey from the Basement

Ah ! And by the way , the effects of the consumption of alcohol before and during trading hours are potentially disastrous.

SOCRATES said:

Ah ! And by the way , the effects of the consumption of alcohol before and during trading hours are potentially disastrous.

Click to expand...

aw, shucks and non-alcoholic wine is such a bore

Yes, but alcohol disbles the TP, it stimulates the HP , it takes the edge off reflexive response, it dulls judgement amongst other negative effects, you see.

Socrates

Ah! But if I had enough it would surely be a good preventative measure from stopping me and my HPgoing back to my screen whilst my mechanically induced TP worked through the result!!!

regards

jon

barjon said:

Ah! But if I had enough it would surely be a good preventative measure from stopping me and my HPgoing back to my screen whilst my mechanically induced TP worked through the result!!!

Click to expand...

This must be tongue in cheek rather than putting one's foot in it.

It seems difficult enough to cultivate and switch to a TP without the handicap of being tired and emotional

barjon said:

Socrates

Ah! But if I had enough it would surely be a good preventative measure from stopping me and my HPgoing back to my screen whilst my mechanically induced TP worked through the result!!!

regards

jon

Click to expand...

I know you are saying this for fun, but it is not the way it works at all, because once the TP is fully developed and acquired armouring of its own, it instantaneously detect the slightest impediment and goes into "hands off" mode. But the escarpment that has to be climbed in order to get to the top is so huge that only the very few are not put off, even by the thought, let alone the act.
Kind Regards As Usual.

JO newbie here.
I am a beginning trader (still trying to figure out the best way to have a simulated or mini experience before I put my cash on the line). I just found T2W late last week and have enjoyed each of the 65 pages of this thread! I put myself in that category of treadmillers who keep the system going so you all can take your profits, and so I hope you will be kind to me if I have misunderstood the conversation and this post is not quite on topic.

I want to talk about this business of 'knowing what's about to happen,' as I believe I have experienced this a few times in my life (not related to trading - see example below). I'm interested in learning ways to practice turning this on at will. Observing oneself while watching television made sense to me, and I was familiar with that sensation (see below).

Once, while canoeing with friends, a situation developed in which I found my myself very clear about what was about to happen several moments before it did. At the time I did not consider it a matter of clairevoyance, and I still do not. It was simply the culmination of experience and relaxed alertness. The creek we were paddling was very high as a result of much rain, and the rental operator was explicit about our need to avoid "trap rock" at the midway point. He explained that there was no danger as long as we gave the situation a wide berth. Although I had lived all my life on the water, I had not canoed this area before, and made a mental note to pay attention. We loaded our canoes and enjoyed the morning paddling uneventfully (except for the tipping situations we created on purpose to give the day the proper flavor).

At lunchtime, we pulled ashore on a sandbar and proceded to lounge and feast. We were facing the creek and a large rock which had "trap" spray painted on its side. All who canoed past were casually and easily avoiding the rock as instructed. Then came trouble. The hair on the back of my neck came up when I saw them 10 seconds up stream. No life jackets, obviously drunk, looking backwards at their friends. It was completely clear to me that in about 200 feet they would be against the rock. I didn't "feel" much at this time, except some inner compulsion to start "the assessment." I looked at my companions who were calmly watching the canoes approach and still feasting and relaxing. I estimated the time to impact, the distance to our own life jackets, the current speed, my maximum accurate throwing distance, my swimming ability and speed, and was "in action" about 1-2 seconds later. I "knew" what was coming. I am not a lifeguard, nor did I entertain any idea about "saving these people I didn't know." I simply knew that I could be in a position to throw a life jacket toward them when they were in need. I experienced no fear or desire, time seemed to slow down, it was as though I was watching a play and I was one of the players.... I saw my self say, "here it comes, they are going down..."

So it was that while my friends were sitting on the picnic blankets saying, 'Gee, that canoe is stuck against the rock and it seems be taking in water over the upstream gunwhale,' I was already in the water with 2 life jackets looped over my shoulder. (I had put down my plate, spit out my food, slipped on my water shoes, run up the beach, retrieved 2 jackets and run back to the beach). My earlier estimate had included the idea that there was no time for explanation if no one else was in action by the time I got my shoes on. At that point the canoe flipped over and both occupants disappeared for about 5 seconds.

The rest of the story ended well, the occupants surfaced and were able to struggle out the bank on the other side without my help. I swam back and thought to finish lunch. Now came the odd feelings. What was wrong with my friends who sat and watched (with half eaten brownies and fried chicken, stopped halfway up to their face, their mouth's in the shape of an O ) ? At first I thought they had chosen not to participate (a wise decision in retrospect), but it turned out not to be the case. They were staring at me as though I was the odd one...

Some other things like that (though less dramatic) have happened during my life, and in each instance, I found my myself surprised that I "knew" and others didn't. Before I read this thread, I thought this was a normal part of life. I assumed that other people experienced this "knowing" also, but just at different times than me, - probably in circumstances in which the surroundings and actions were familiar to them... But now I wonder. Perhaps this is not as common as I thought?

Thoughout my life, I have considered it a pleasure whenever I find myself in a circumstance where I can step back and view the scene from a distance. I am watching myself type this as I type this... Is it possible that I have been training my TP before I even considered trading?

JO

Definition:~ Escarpment = long steep face leading to a plateau / Sheer drop from a plateau.

JumpOff said:

JO newbie here.
I am a beginning trader (still trying to figure out the best way to have a simulated or mini experience before I put my cash on the line). I just found T2W late last week and have enjoyed each of the 65 pages of this thread! I put myself in that category of treadmillers who keep the system going so you all can take your profits, and so I hope you will be kind to me if I have misunderstood the conversation and this post is not quite on topic.

I want to talk about this business of 'knowing what's about to happen,' as I believe I have experienced this a few times in my life (not related to trading - see example below). I'm interested in learning ways to practice turning this on at will. Observing oneself while watching television made sense to me, and I was familiar with that sensation (see below).

Once, while canoeing with friends, a situation developed in which I found my myself very clear about what was about to happen several moments before it did. At the time I did not consider it a matter of clairevoyance, and I still do not. It was simply the culmination of experience and relaxed alertness. The creek we were paddling was very high as a result of much rain, and the rental operator was explicit about our need to avoid "trap rock" at the midway point. He explained that there was no danger as long as we gave the situation a wide berth. Although I had lived all my life on the water, I had not canoed this area before, and made a mental note to pay attention. We loaded our canoes and enjoyed the morning paddling uneventfully (except for the tipping situations we created on purpose to give the day the proper flavor).

At lunchtime, we pulled ashore on a sandbar and proceded to lounge and feast. We were facing the creek and a large rock which had "trap" spray painted on its side. All who canoed past were casually and easily avoiding the rock as instructed. Then came trouble. The hair on the back of my neck came up when I saw them 10 seconds up stream. No life jackets, obviously drunk, looking backwards at their friends. It was completely clear to me that in about 200 feet they would be against the rock. I didn't "feel" much at this time, except some inner compulsion to start "the assessment." I looked at my companions who were calmly watching the canoes approach and still feasting and relaxing. I estimated the time to impact, the distance to our own life jackets, the current speed, my maximum accurate throwing distance, my swimming ability and speed, and was "in action" about 1-2 seconds later. I "knew" what was coming. I am not a lifeguard, nor did I entertain any idea about "saving these people I didn't know." I simply knew that I could be in a position to throw a life jacket toward them when they were in need. I experienced no fear or desire, time seemed to slow down, it was as though I was watching a play and I was one of the players.... I saw my self say, "here it comes, they are going down..."

So it was that while my friends were sitting on the picnic blankets saying, 'Gee, that canoe is stuck against the rock and it seems be taking in water over the upstream gunwhale,' I was already in the water with 2 life jackets looped over my shoulder. (I had put down my plate, spit out my food, slipped on my water shoes, run up the beach, retrieved 2 jackets and run back to the beach). My earlier estimate had included the idea that there was no time for explanation if no one else was in action by the time I got my shoes on. At that point the canoe flipped over and both occupants disappeared for about 5 seconds.

The rest of the story ended well, the occupants surfaced and were able to struggle out the bank on the other side without my help. I swam back and thought to finish lunch. Now came the odd feelings. What was wrong with my friends who sat and watched (with half eaten brownies and fried chicken, stopped halfway up to their face, their mouth's in the shape of an O ) ? At first I thought they had chosen not to participate (a wise decision in retrospect), but it turned out not to be the case. They were staring at me as though I was the odd one...

Some other things like that (though less dramatic) have happened during my life, and in each instance, I found my myself surprised that I "knew" and others didn't. Before I read this thread, I thought this was a normal part of life. I assumed that other people experienced this "knowing" also, but just at different times than me, - probably in circumstances in which the surroundings and actions were familiar to them... But now I wonder. Perhaps this is not as common as I thought?

Thoughout my life, I have considered it a pleasure whenever I find myself in a circumstance where I can step back and view the scene from a distance. I am watching myself type this as I type this... Is it possible that I have been training my TP before I even considered trading?

JO

Click to expand...

Yep.

Jumpoff
Funnily enough I was preparing something similar and as usual checked where the thread had got to before I posted.
According to research into Airline and railway accidents, there is a type of person who does not panic when something like fire or other nastiness is in the offing.
They are able to stand back an take an objective view of the situation and decide what to do for the best, irrespective of the chaos and panic and screaming going on around them.
Perhaps you are one such being.

Somewhat akin to the poem by Kipling
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs..............."

And later it goes on:-
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting.......................
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;........................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it"

This may well be unique to certain individuals, and perhaps they may have a head start in trading, an already inbuilt type of TP capability (just my speculation, as yours too).
Reading about the tortured process which Socrates has described himself going through, it would appear that, given the right guidance and making the appropriate effort, it may be possible for the people who would normally 'panic' to be able to create this objective persona.
If so then I can see why Socrates is so insistent on stickability and patience, paying attention to every word, accepting the hardships to come.
For many, or even all, it's not going to be an easy ride.
Does one have the fortitude to stay with it no matter what, no matter how long it takes ?
Or instead be like the rest, falling foul of the need for instant gratification, shortcuts, black boxes.; and/or be overcome by machismo, ego, greed/fear etc.

Glenn

Glenn said:

Somewhat akin to the poem by Kipling

Click to expand...

Not such a good one in this context Glenn...

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

TheBramble said:

Not such a good one in this context Glenn...

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

Click to expand...

..which is why I edited it and said "somewhat akin"

Glenn

That is right Glenn. I was called away to supper and now that I am back I am going to tell you of an experience that I had similar to JumpOff's, because talking to my wite over supper about his experience with the canoeists suddenly brought it all back.

Several years ago I was in a Yacht Marina talking on the pier to a shipwright whom I had commissioned to do some repairs to locker doors that had come off their hinges in heavy weather on board my boat.This was on a concrete pier about 4 feet above the water and the tide was in. Strolling along behind me come two couples very engrossed in conversation between them followed by three little girls, giggling and laughing and frolicking about. As they drew level and went past I "knew" that something was up.

"Here" I said, "take this", removing my wristwatch. "Take this also" removing my sunglasses to his flash of amazement. The group was about 10 feet away, with their backs to me. Suddenly one of the little girls tripped on a rope and fell into the sea. I was already running. I jumped in, feet first, faster almost than I can tell you, and surfaced alongside this thrashing child who had just surfaced for the second time. I grabbed her by the shoulder of her dress and pulled her head clear of the water. At this moment the adults had not yet realised what had happened. They came to the edge of the pier and looked down at us and started all of them at the same time to shout.

This did not help at all, because what I desperately needed was not hysterical people but a boathook !
There was fortunately a rusty pilot ladder riveted to the side of the pier about 4 to 5 feet away. I was able to swim with the child and got her onto the ladder and onto the pier. The adults continued to shriek and wave their arms( reminds us of the Windmill|) and to tell each other off and the other two girls and the girl I had rescued.

The above is an important lesson on the inabilities of the Human Persona.
I am now going to explain why:~

The HP is constructed to preserve life. It responds to an impulse to preserve life even if the impulse is not the right one. What happens is that when the HP finds itself in a life threatening situation for which it does not have a frame of reference, it panics. This panic occurs when the individual is under threat , or by proxy, which is what happened here. The panic of the adults occured as a result of a realisation that their life preserving mechanism had failed, and what is worse that the victim was defenceless and also in a close blood tie proxy situation.

None of this yelling did any good, in fact it may have done some harm, because the little girl was not aware till then that she had been fleetingly, in mortal danger.This illustrates an example of the inabilities of the HP when an adequate frame of reference in a crisis could not be found to fit the event. The HP in trying to justify itself as its role of life protector(an inefficient life protector) resorted to an emotion. In fact it resorted to conflicting emotions that caused an emotive explosion. A mixture of guilt, fear, relief, anger and self recrimination all bunched together.

I picked up the child in my arms and turned away from the adults to give the victim some space to recover. When the child had stopped shaking. I put her down gently on the ground. Only then did she begin to bawl. If the adults had not responded in the way they did none of this would have happened. We now see how it is that the inabilities of the HP in adults is reflected in children, but only when the reflection is experiential.

This leads to the ongoing process of armouring that I have described previously, both for the adults AND the child.

SOCRATES said:

Definition:~ Escarpment = long steep face leading to a plateau / Sheer drop from a plateau.

Click to expand...

I think that more might be convinced of the need to undergo the long climb up the escarpment if they could be sure that the plateau it led to formed the sunlit trading uplands.

Too many want to stroll on the uplands and enjoy the sun and the view without the vicissitudes of the climb. It is possible to take cable cars to the summit of some tourist plateaux and stay there briefly and film crews have long used helicopters to take reporters to the heights to film so the masses can experience the joy by proxy for a short time.

Unfortunately the most spectacular and unvisited peaks are usually remote and are only freely accessible to well planned expeditions whose members have the desire to succeed, the ability to succeed, the willingness to train and the discipline and drive to force themselves on to do so. These expeditions are usually led by very experienced leaders and guides.

Those who want success badly enough will surely determine to do what it takes to succeed

Socrates, providing it wouldn't take you too far off your own topic (developing the TP) would you care to speculate on 'what' or 'who' it was that saw or sensed what was going to happen ahead of time and risked their own continuing survival by attempting (successfully) a rescue?

It's not a TP operating in both the (a) see ahead and (b) risk own survival. Or is it? Or is it a different persona altogether.

There are many instances (not wishing to denigrate your own actions) of a similar nature where one human risks their life for another. Altruism could be nominated as a candidate, but I doubt in all cases. And improbably so where there is no blood-tie.

TheBramble said:

Socrates, providing it wouldn't take you too far off your own topic (developing the TP) would you care to speculate on 'what' or 'who' it was that saw or sensed what was going to happen ahead of time and risked their own continuing survival by attempting (successfully) a rescue?

It's not a TP operating in both the (a) see ahead and (b) risk own survival. Or is it? Or is it a different persona altogether.

There are many instances (not wishing to denigrate your own actions) of a similar nature where one human risks their life for another. Altruism could be nominated as a candidate, but I doubt in all cases. And improbably so where there is no blood-tie.

Click to expand...

A different persona altogether. I sensed what had to be done ahead of time and just went and did it. It held no fear for me because I have always been a strong swimmer, but I did feel anxiety at perhaps not arriving in time to save the child, because at the third sinking it is known that children drown. All along the Mediterranean coast children learn to swim and float almost before they can walk, but these were quite obviously visitors.

By the way it is known that a child traumatised by the experience of falling from a height and into cold water can bob up by thrashing about but it can all be over inside 4 seconds.

Some additional questions about knowing:

Socrates, were you trading before you had the experience where you "knew" something was about to happen at the pier? At what stage of development was your TP at that time? Did your pier experience change anything about your trading?

I also want to comment about the situation just before the child tripped. Here's my guess.

You'd been at this pier before.
You'd noticed that it was possible for people to fall in.
You'd noticed that some landlubbers seem to get particularly awkward around water.
You'd seen this kind of giggling behaviour in children who are having fun and
not paying attention to their surroundings.
You'd seen several incidents where children in the care of inattentive parents
had 'accidents.'
You knew (or estimated) the water was over the child's head.
You had already made a judgement about the adult's ability to react effectively
based upon their ineffective attention to the situation.
You knew your land speed, your swimming strength, your fondness for your
watch and sunglasses.
In short, your radar was 'up.'
Pattern recognition was 'on'.


I'm guessing the same things happen in trading.
You've traded this instrument before,
You know its range of motion, its, spurts,its retracement levels, and how all of these react to who's playing, and the volume of transactions.
You've personally seen what happens to trader and associates who don't pay attention,
or can't seem to see the situation in front of their nose.
You are aware of your own abilities, fondnesses and foibles,
You know that there are moments when action is called for,
and when it is best to wait and watch.
When you see the situation develops and its time to react,
you do it, simply because there is no reason not to.
In short, your radar is 'up.'
Pattern recognition is 'on'.

The bobcat pounces on the rabbit because it can,
because it was made to pounce and the rabbit was meant to be eaten.
The bobcat is 'present' to the situation with pattern recognition on
(There's a tasty morsel coming my way),
and radar up: (Now is the moment to pounce).

I suspect that all predatorsand prey know this state of mind, and that only humans who have been trained not to know it (it would be inconvenient for civilized people) , are unaware of the true nature of life.

JO

I agree that predators are successful overall otherwise they would not survive - but they are often only just successful enough and on many occasions their prey escapes. On the occasions when it does not theyhave enough food for a while.

Predators are built to hunt well but thee xperience has to be taught and learned and what we are discussing here is learned behaviour as well as innate ability I think

The predator knows it is possible but doesn't know for sure and there lies the difference - certainty.

Rognvald said:

I think that more might be convinced of the need to undergo the long climb up the escarpment if they could be sure that the plateau it led to formed the sunlit trading uplands.

Too many want to stroll on the uplands and enjoy the sun and the view without the vicissitudes of the climb. It is possible to take cable cars to the summit of some tourist plateaux and stay there briefly and film crews have long used helicopters to take reporters to the heights to film so the masses can experience the joy by proxy for a short time.

Unfortunately the most spectacular and unvisited peaks are usually remote and are only freely accessible to well planned expeditions whose members have the desire to succeed, the ability to succeed, the willingness to train and the discipline and drive to force themselves on to do so. These expeditions are usually led by very experienced leaders and guides.

Those who want success badly enough will surely determine to do what it takes to succeed

Click to expand...

You often read how I write about the inabilities of the HP. The HP, that is the HP which is untainted by badly routed thought processes contains within it the right character. The right character has nothing to do with personality, it has to do with the essential trinity that qualifies it as being the right one for a succesful trader. These are Ability, Merit and Conduct.

Ability is the abstract definition of being able to punch through and overcome difficulties and obstacles whether real or imagined. This involves intellectual stamina.

Merit is what distinguishes those who persist against all odds and relates to the development of very high levels of awareness.

Conduct is the tangible definition applied to what is correct behaviour, within a framework of morality and reason.

All of these three together comprise The Right Character, which is something very personal
and singular to the individual and is not constrained by background, upbringing, circumstances, education or otherwise, but is part of the individual's makeup, and regrettably is something money cannot buy, and a faculty that cannot be "brought out" if it is not already there, in dormant form. The problem is, the majority of people are very skilled at hiding their inabilities, until they face the markets for real, and this is enough to bring to the surface ineptitudes. Also, it is practically impossible in advance to evaluate at a glance who has the right character and who has not, as people do not carry labels on their foreheads, regrettably.

It is for this reason that these discourses are delivered as stimuli to discussion and not tuition in any way, as tuition, in order for it to be done properly has to be delivered in ascending tiers of structured learning, and the Internet is not a suitable medium for this discipline. In addition, sadly, it has been proven to me time and time again, that audiences
are not interested in being taught. They pretend they are, but they are not really. The reason for this lies within their own inabilities, the greatest being preconceived opinions and a refusal to accept all of the agenda as presented , but rather the bits which are liked and not the bits which are not liked. This is a disataster, it may turn out to be frustrating for the disobedient student, but even more frustrating for the tutor.

Notwithstanding the previous I am willing to help people to progress in the hope they will benefit by if nothing else, developing a higher level of awareness in many areas not least the realisation that a lot of nonsense is written about this topic elsewhere to the detriment of those who really have a need and desire to progress in a manner that is constructive and enriching.