martin coles PAT software

This is a discussion on martin coles PAT software within the Trading Software forums, part of the Commercial category; This is a propritory software designed by Martin Cole. Price goes upto £ 500 per month. He does offer a ...

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Old Jun 3, 2003, 6:27pm   #1
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martin coles PAT software

This is a propritory software designed by Martin Cole. Price goes upto £ 500 per month. He does offer a gurantee of 100 pips on either dax or ftse, or next month free.

If would welcome any thoughts by people who have used it.


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Old Jun 3, 2003, 7:04pm   #2
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I have just looked at the site and I would want to know the following which are not given.

1) A 2 year history of results for this product on the FTSE and Dax

2) The maximum intra-day drawdown over this time, ie by how much is your starting account depleted for trades that do not work.

3) Win to loss ratio

4) Profit factor which should be at least 2

For me this site is lacking a lot of information and at £500 per month that is a lot to fork out. Also the only guarantee is that you will make 100 points per month and if not then next month your subscription is free. So even if it doesnt work there is still no cost incurred by the proprieter a pretty good deal and one that is often used by horseracing tipsters.

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Old Jun 3, 2003, 7:07pm   #3
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If it goes wrong and you get the second month free, you have still had to pay the £500 for the first month. Doesn't look good to me.

Why not read Chartman's posts for free and see if you can make money using his system? Use the £500 for trading and you will gain some experience.
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Old Jun 3, 2003, 7:37pm   #4
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In the past there's been discussion about Martin Coles; you may wish to peruse the last thread in case there are some juicy nuggets of information hidden in it!
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Old Jun 3, 2003, 7:49pm   #5
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spoons spoon fed a "system" or create your own by working at the coalface and learning in the school of hard knocks?

There are cheaper schools to get you started. Some are shown on t2w homepage.

Anyway...take care and good luck.
....Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
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Old Jun 3, 2003, 8:41pm   #6
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PAT's a Prat
Every market has a bottom, every bottom has a hole in it.
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Old Jun 19, 2003, 2:13pm   #7
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I have been trialling this software over the last couple of months.

His guarantee is that, based on his rules, the system will produce over 100pts (not that you, as the user, are guaranteed to make that many points). Since the middle of May, he has altered and added to the rules to ensure that this continues - the original rules are not likely to produce the results for June, but the amended ones will.

I have found it hard to trade his system - which is often the way trying to trade another's system and have not often or consistently matched his results (usually to the downside). I find that the rule set is getting very complex (now runs to over 15 sides of A4 paper) and I'm not convinced that the system has been back tested for much more than is shown on the website.

To get his system to pay for itself, assuming that you make the guaranteed 100pts, you would need to bet in excess of £5/pt, which could be quite difficult psychologically in the early stages of trading.

I concur with others who have suggested that it is better to create your own system - you will get some ideas from Martin Cole's approach, but there are probably cheaper ways.

Hope this helps.
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Old Jun 19, 2003, 2:25pm   #8
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15 sides of A4? Wow. Sounds far too complicated! The simpler the system the better it is, because it is far easier to follow a simple system than a complicated one. Just IMO.

Oops, nearly forgot to say, welcome to T2W
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Old Jun 19, 2003, 4:09pm   #9
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It's a shame you didnt find these boards before parting with your money. You will find that there is a general view that trading other people's systems is not thought of too highly particularly when a small fortune is charged to learn how to do so. The argument is generally one of "If the system is that successful then why is there a need to sell it to others"

This is not the same as getting coaching in how to trade and T2W has a number of highly recommended individuals.

I hope things get better for you and I agree with Skim, 15 pages is ridiculous, there are many traders on here who use some very simple rules and it is managing the money whilst in the trade that is the key (in my view)


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Old Jun 19, 2003, 4:47pm   #10
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Thanks Shimbleshanks & Paul

Yes - I agree with you both - the simpler the better. I have been working on some simpler home grown systems, which seem to give better returns and have less issues of interpretation.

I took Martin Cole's trial - so haven't parted with the £500 per month (there was a discount to try the system out). My attitude is that as it hasn't paid for itself there is no valid reason to keep it on.

I think that he possibly has some good ideas, but over optimization of the system means that it will be a constantly moving target and therefore impossible to trade. I think that there are cheaper ways of getting ideas - such as through these boards. Also books like Kaufman (Trading Systems and methods), Van Tharp (Trade your way to financial freedom) and Stridsman (Trading systems that work).
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Old Jun 28, 2003, 9:01am   #11
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I have worked with Martin for some time now & studied his methods.

The software works, there is no doubt there, but the simple fact is, different systems work for different people.

PAT Maps the market in a completely new way so to enable the user to interpret a lot of info in a simple manner. this in itself is a Giant leap forward and the strategy is designed to pass on what Martin cole understands & uses himself to trade the Market, to other people , to then replicate this.

This strategy will sit comfortably with some people & not others, as we r all different, I guess that is why it has a trial period. u r also only forced to use this strategy to enable the Guarantee!

If u want to trade for a living then the first thing u should ask any person offering to teach or sell software is whether they use the methods themselves & does it give a sustainable net point profit !

once u have this answer, then all u can do is investigate & try it for yourself, only then will u know whether the 'system ' will work for u.

the software probably appears expensive , but then this is all relative, if your goal is to be a successful trader & make 30-50-100K p/year & it enables u to do this then it is not.

Guess what I am trying to say is, if it enables some people to make 100 points a month, comfortably, with a guarantee & have a great lifestyle then it can only be a good thing, but this doesn't mean to say the strategy will be for everyone.
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Old Jun 28, 2003, 4:23pm   #12
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it beats me why anyone wants to buy/rent any system, learn from a good coach and trade for yourself, better, cheaper, more satisfying, take control for yourself don't put yourself in other's hands, isn't that what its all about??? don't change from a wage slave to a system slave, be free and in control
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Old Jun 30, 2003, 1:16pm   #13
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Anyone who is interested in viewing his system manual it is on his website and publically available. and follow link to "Pat Trading manual"
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Old Jun 30, 2003, 1:38pm   #14
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Some of what you are saying seems to come directly from Martin Cole's website. Have you tried trading the PAT system? If so I would be interested to know what results you were able to achieve.

I agree that the software appears to work, from the results shown on his website, but the question then remains as to whether it is really tradeable. Systems often work with the benefit of hindsight.

I have other concerns about his system:

1. that it is "black box" and generates signals based on some criteria coded into the program, which he does not divulge. I am not sure that people learn to trade from that approach. Markets also have a habit of stopping systems from working after a period of time, especially if you have 100 people trading the same signals.

2. There is no summary of results and what can be expected in terms of the maximum number of sequential losing trades and the maximum draw down that could occur. Both are useful indicators as to whether the system would suit an individual's trading style.

3. I do wonder how long the system has been tested for. The main trend indicators stopped working at the end of May/start of June and have generated few signals since. (It was after this that he seems to have introduced a new method - refer to the graphs area of his website).
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Old Jun 30, 2003, 2:48pm   #15
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Hi Ozzie

I probably have said some things that appear on Martin's website, but I am not just repeating things he has said, I just agree with some of the things he is trying to achieve. also the comments were becoming a bit 'one sided' & felt some people were missing the point a little.

yes I took the software with the intent of evaluating it but I had so many technical difficulties at the time I only managed to run it for 2-3 days out of the 2 months with about the same number of trades. I am keeping a close eye on the site now & maybe will retry it eventually.

I Do agree with some of the comments u have made & your comments r valid as u have trialed the software, the strategy has become a little complex & is still open to some interpretation. I believe PATs strength is in the software itself & how it presents information, for example, the strategy I use for entry & exit on trades is presented very clearly with PAT & it has the ability to track trading ranges automatically ( something I could have done with this morning as I forgot to put it in :-((.

trading is difficult, & I guess coming up with the 'perfect strategy ' to suit everyone is just as difficult. yes I guess there r still flaws to be ironed out......& it would never suit everybody anyway.

I just believe it to be a step forward in many respects & deserves some support.

& people will only continue with it if it works for them, & if it does then it has served them well
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