my journal 2

This is a discussion on my journal 2 within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; I'm just going to keep on doubling up until this becomes second nature, and then I'll try the IB's paper ...

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Old Feb 2, 2010, 10:00pm   #151
 
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Here's my plan

Yamato started this thread I'm just going to keep on doubling up until this becomes second nature, and then I'll try the IB's paper trading account again. Maybe in time I'll learn to make this happen with real money, and defeat the two enemies that I don't have in the chart game:

1) fear from trading real money
2) boredom from trading in real time (which is slower, and makes you second guess yourself)

In real trading you're going to make a decision, and then the chart won't get where you expect it to go in a few seconds but in a few hours (at least). And in those few hours your thinking will change, because no one can be such a slow thinker as to think one idea every 4 hours. Making a good trade takes a few seconds. What do you do in all the hours you have? You will second guess your trade, and this is a problem.

That's the one problem I wouldn't have with day trading. But then daytrading may actually go too fast.

I don't know... regardless of all this talk, these will be my steps since I have no choice: ace the chart game with all 4 types of trades (below/above support/resistance) and then move to IB's paper trading account. Then, if I can manage to be profitable at that, I can be profitable on a daily basis with real trading.

Last edited by Yamato; Feb 2, 2010 at 10:06pm.
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Old Feb 2, 2010, 10:12pm   #152
 
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Meet your violent and boring professor, Real Trading

Yamato started this thread Why does the chart game work and trading doesn't work as easily? Why can you learn the chart game and not trading?

Because the chart game gives you the answer right away, and that's what learning requires. Imagine if you were in school, and took a test, or in any learning situation, and were given the feedback a few hours later. With the chart game i get the feedback in a few seconds. That's why it is so powerful.

With real trading I get the feedback in a few hours and it is so expensive that I can only afford one guess, one class, one lesson per day, and not 1000 guesses per hour like in the chart game.

No one is going to learn if you delay the answer for so long, and kick them in the balls every time they are wrong (by taking their money). In this sense, I'd say that the market is an awful teacher. Would you want to be with a teacher who tells you if you are right or wrong a few hours later, for every question you ask him, and who kicks you in the balls every time you are wrong? Nope. Yet that's exactly what kind of a teacher "real trading" is.

The market, or rather real trading (vs accelerated paper trading with the chart game) is a bad teacher in that it gives you crappy lessons, very costly... in that:

1)It teaches you too slowly (it gives you the right answer hours later at best)
2) and it hurts you too much when you are wrong (so that you can only learn one lesson every so often).

In summary, real trading is a boring, ineffective and costly teacher. That's why few people can learn how to trade.

Real trading as a teacher reminds me of that girl I knew who was always so enigmatic about her answers: she wanted to spend time with me, but she wasn't really interested. She held hands, but she wasn't sure. As frustrating as ever. We want clear and constant feedback from the market and from women, but with Italian women, this is rarely the case, and with the market, it's never the case. It makes you wait, it keeps you waiting, just like an Italian woman, never letting you know whether it's a yes or a no, until you've wasted more time than you can afford, and have given up out of boredom.

Last edited by Yamato; Feb 2, 2010 at 10:22pm.
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Old Feb 2, 2010, 10:26pm   #153
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Now, unless you're a scalper and you're good at making 100 trades per day, which I am not because I'd get killed, this is the chart I'm usually looking at: 2 weeks of hourly candles.

snap1.jpg

Now, regardless of what this chart is, I am pretty good at interpreting it.

It's 3 PM CST so a reversal is impending. We're up against some sort of resistance, having bounced on it repeatedly. We're highly overbought... We've gone up for the past few hours, so we'll reverse and go down for the next few hours now. A SHORT trade is a pretty safe bet for the next 12 hours, with stoploss above resistance.

It's easy... but was I patient enough to wait until 3 PM CST? Nope. I've placed 4 trades already. Once I'll place my overnight trade will I be patient enough to wait another 12 hours? Only if I'll sleep but even that is not a certainty.

That's the difference between the chart game and real trading. And also: how did I learn all these things? Years of back-testing. Whereas how did I learn to be profitable in the chart game? Just a few days of practice.

What takes you years of efforts and thousands of dollars with real trading, only takes you a few days of practice with accelerated simulation. Real time simulation is also no good.

This web site is a masterpiece and the most useful trading web site there is:
www.chartgame.com

Last edited by Yamato; Feb 2, 2010 at 10:32pm.
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Old Feb 2, 2010, 10:39pm   #154
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Being profitable is easy. You look at the chart, make your trade, and let it be for a few hours. But if you can't just do it with a click and you have to do it very slowly, you're going to blow it, or rather I am going to blow it, because I am restless and I will look at the chart over and over again, and change my trade over and over again, and make a trade even if I see nothing in the chart. So, the chart game works because if I see nothing, I click one week ahead, but real trading doesn't work, because if I see nothing I can't click and make time go by, and so, being restless, I make my trade anyway.

Being rested tomorrow is easy: I'll just have to fall asleep now. But I won't do it, because I am restless. Too restless to go to bed on time each night. I can rarely go to bed on time, because I am troubled and frustrated. I am not in peace with myself. Rarely have been.

Restlessness has screwed me in many fields before. Even with girls. I'll do some courting, then I say "hey, do you want me or not?", **** it, I am not going to wait around. If you don't want me, screw you, I don't need you... then the girl will reject you before you have even given her a chance. I basically want a yes before I even ask her out.

I guess that having a life would make time go by faster and I wouldn't trade if I see no opportunities, but i can't get a life unless I first succeed in trading, because getting a life requires money, and yet I can't succeed in trading unless I first get a life... it seems like an impossible situation.


Last edited by Yamato; Feb 2, 2010 at 10:57pm.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 4:01pm   #155
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread All 100% profit made by going SHORT. After all, that reader of mine, revealed to me that stocks are not necessarily going more up than down. Indexes are indeed. But stocks don't necessarily do that, because they get "demoted" and similar. This remark by him, plus my motivation to try and explore all types of trades is what enabled me to make profit on the chart game, both by doing LONG and SHORT trades. I am very satisfied, but I will keep on practicing. Especially since this practice keeps me from overtrading (with real money) and it's effectively teaching me to use the stoploss (especially the SHORT trades).

snap1.jpg

The chart is also teaching me a lot about timing. It is a marvelous web site.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 6:37pm   #156
 
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Good! Doubled up, had losses, and handled them well

Yamato started this thread Good! Another series of doubling up just with SHORT trades. I like this better, because I've gone down and managed to handle my losses. I hope to get some losses each time I double up or else I'll get used to winning and not be ready when a loss comes. And potentially blow out my account (in simulation).

t2w_post.jpg

With the chart game I am really learning how to handle losses, and how to read the charts.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 8:38pm   #157
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread AWESOME.

What's great is that I've learned to play the SHORT side on just about every single chart I am offered. I was thinking you couldn't lose by going LONG. And now I am looking at the SHORT side and I am thinking just the opposite. It seems almost easier.

Another thing I've learned is to let go of a stock where I've lost money, because then I'll feel vengeful towards that stock, and I'll lose more money. My rule right now is that I can't lose more than 10% on any given stock.

And I doubled my capital yet another time. After a few more weeks of this practice, I'll have to find a way to turn this into real money skills. In real trading, i am not doing well. In these tests, the rule seems to be that whichever chart I trade, I make money, whichever side I trade it. I am very satisfied with myself. It seems like a dream.

I must mention that it wasn't always this easy, and that when I started playing this game I was close to thinking it was an impossible feat. I was this close to giving up on it. I felt and I wrote it here that I could do no more than 5 trades per day. Well, now I am making over 100 trades per day, and making money almost on every trade and every stock I play. In this simulation "practice makes perfect", but in real trading, 12 years of practice didn't even make me profitable. I don't think it's just due to money making me scared of losing. I think it has to do mostly with the (slower) speed of real trading. Here I can make a week go by with just a click. With real trading I have hours and hours to anticipate entries, to second-guess myself once I'm in a trade, and to anticipate exits. And that's how i lose. Even today. The slowness of trading really screws up your thinking, together with the fear of losing real money.

snap1.jpg
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 9:01pm   #158
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Ok, it's getting so easy... this one I achieved always by going SHORT, but it took only 2 trades:

snap1.jpg

Last edited by Yamato; Feb 3, 2010 at 9:11pm.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 9:29pm   #159
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Ok, the chart game won't let me play anymore, because I've been using it too often... unbelievable. So I looked for something similar, and it might turn out to be better:

http://sites.google.com/site/testmytrades/
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 10:00pm   #160
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread I was told by a reader to clean my cookies and that it would work again, but unfortunately it's not the case. Here's the message I get:

snap1.jpg
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 10:49pm   #161
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread It's terrible. It won't let me play again on this laptop and browser. I tried on another computer (same IP) and it lets me play. I installed safari and it lets me play on this computer. But if I try to play with internet explorer it seems to say that i've played too much: regardless of my deleting all cookies and similar.
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Old Feb 3, 2010, 10:55pm   #162
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread This time I've gone both LONG and SHORT and ignored a couple of stoplosses, but got lucky.

snap1.jpg

Last game for today. In the meanwhile, losing hundreds with real trading.
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Old Feb 4, 2010, 7:39am   #163
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread All by going SHORT. New lesson learned: when there's a hammer (meaning that during a week it fell down a lot and then went back up to where the week started) at the top of a rise move, the next candle almost certainly is down. The same applies to this situation: top of a rise, big red candle followed by an equally big white candle: the next candle is red again, almost always.

snap3.jpg

I am glad I achieved this by losing a few times, which means I am in control of losses.
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Old Feb 4, 2010, 5:08pm   #164
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Yep, another doubling up just on SHORT trades.

snap1.jpg

Pretty soon I will require tripling up of myself, both for SHORT and for LONG trades.

In the meanwhile I've blown out my real money account due to not using a stoploss. I still have this problem even in my simulations. I still cannot accept/conceive losses, whether simulated or real. But I feel that I am getting closer to accepting them. The closer I get to being confident of my profitability, the closer I get to accepting my losses.
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Old Feb 4, 2010, 7:35pm   #165
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread This was all done by going short, and I'm playing all stocks, even the most bullish ones.

Rules:
1) going short below s/r or at extremely overstretched levels
2) stop trading stock as soon as you get a loss
3) exit as soon as your loss is over 5%

snap2.jpg

I resolved to getting to 40k (from 10k), because this rules out any luck and it forces me to use the stoploss. Otherwise I can just hope to be lucky and not finish the games where I don't get lucky and blow out my account.

The account must be conceived as one. I can't just test out several accounts and only keep the ones that succeed because in real trading this cannot happen. I have to stick to one account no matter how poorly it performs.
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