William D Gann

This is a discussion on William D Gann within the Trading Delta Cycles forums, part of the Specialists' Corner category; OK, so the thread had to be started. I will be posting some stuff that I have used in the ...

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Old May 23, 2009, 10:39pm   #1
 
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William D Gann

OK, so the thread had to be started.
I will be posting some stuff that I have used in the past and hope that others will also.
Most of what I use today to time the markets is Gann related or an evolution of some of what he used. I won't pretend to be a Gann expert, but I have spent quite allot of time studying about his methods and his work.

I will say this...

The biggest thing I learned from all of the Gann work that I have done is this:

You need to work for it.

When you have something that looks good you need to go over allot of history for each and every market you like to trade.
Just because it works well for one market does not mean it will work well for others.
When you find a method that works well for a market you need to watch how it works and when it doesn't look for patterns to see if there is something that gives away the fact that it won't work, or at least a hint.

Also, if anyone knows some "Gann" stuff please by all means share.

I use to worry about people have too much information and making all kinds off money off of what I spent years learning. Now I know that no matter what you share informationally speaking, if some one can't make money with a simple system then they are not going to be able to do it with any thing Gann either.

The only other concern with Gann is that people who don't understand or can't make it work tend to make fun of people when they use these types of methods. At least when they fail. I know that won't happen here in this forum so that's a nice change of pace.
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Old May 24, 2009, 7:34pm   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwsteele View Post
OK, so the thread had to be started.
I will be posting some stuff that I have used in the past and hope that others will also.
Most of what I use today to time the markets is Gann related or an evolution of some of what he used. I won't pretend to be a Gann expert, but I have spent quite allot of time studying about his methods and his work.

I will say this...

The biggest thing I learned from all of the Gann work that I have done is this:

You need to work for it.

When you have something that looks good you need to go over allot of history for each and every market you like to trade.
Just because it works well for one market does not mean it will work well for others.
When you find a method that works well for a market you need to watch how it works and when it doesn't look for patterns to see if there is something that gives away the fact that it won't work, or at least a hint.

Also, if anyone knows some "Gann" stuff please by all means share.

I use to worry about people have too much information and making all kinds off money off of what I spent years learning. Now I know that no matter what you share informationally speaking, if some one can't make money with a simple system then they are not going to be able to do it with any thing Gann either.

The only other concern with Gann is that people who don't understand or can't make it work tend to make fun of people when they use these types of methods. At least when they fail. I know that won't happen here in this forum so that's a nice change of pace.
Hi,
I shall be following this thread with interest, and would like to thank you for sharing your perspective. Would it be possible to mention some sources for further education. I know that Rosen (related to Delta International) is using Gann cycle too, but there must be many others.
Meanwhile, have a great weekend,
2be
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Old May 25, 2009, 7:15pm   #3
 
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hwsteele started this thread The first thing that every one needs to understand is that Gann did all his "forecasting" with either astrology or numerology.
Everything that he wrote in his books was a "strait math" way of looking at his astro stuff.
He also hid allot of information coded in his books about how he used the stars with frankly, simple coding.
He believed that you need to work for what you get to truly appreciate it.
I can tell you from my own personal quest for trading information that even if you don't appreciate it more you tend to understand it allot better if you had to do the work yourself.
The number one thing I came away with from all of my Gann studies is to do the work yourself.
Get an idea, then look to see if it works in charts that go back as far as you can go.
Once I started to do that a wonderful thing happened.
When I WOULD read about something Gann related I would understand it much faster. Also, there were times when I read something that I had already figured out myself.
Then the big one that kicked me in my pants the hardest...
Things that I had read and tossed to the side years before I re-read after having been doing my own studies for some time, and saw in a brand new light. Suddenly I understood what they were saying.

Tell you what, when you get the idea of the "Holy Grail" out of your head and start working for things yourself the world opens up to you.

Learn this:
You are the only person that matters!
Once you have your information that you earned No one will ever see it from your perspective again.
Now knowing that, don't try to unlock that special something that Gann used because you won't every get what he had.
I'll tell you what though, what you find may just be better.

So in that spirit I am going to give you some things that Gann used.
If you are smart you will use them to get ideas of your own. Work for them. That means look at the charts as far back as you can and then see how your idea works. Notice how it works and make notes about it. Watch the price before and after. If you do that for a good ten ideas or more you will start to realize that you have a deeper understanding of that market than you would have thought possible before.
That brings me to another point. Pick three markets and then stick with them. If you can't do that then should you be trading? You don't have the discipline to stick to three markets but you think you do to control your trading?

Think about that long and hard.
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Old May 25, 2009, 7:21pm   #4
 
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hwsteele started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2be View Post
Hi,
I shall be following this thread with interest, and would like to thank you for sharing your perspective. Would it be possible to mention some sources for further education. I know that Rosen (related to Delta International) is using Gann cycle too, but there must be many others.
Meanwhile, have a great weekend,
2be
In the next few weeks I am going to make my little contribution here with this thread. After that I will give the two people that I suggest you read their stuff.
I'm not going to do it before because I am going to make a point with my part of this thread.
If you read my first two posts if your smart you might be able to pick up on it already
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Old May 27, 2009, 1:20pm   #5
 
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looking forward to some momentum on Gann.
From a meta-analysis standpoint, I wonder if there is any agreement with turning points on Delta, and Ganns turning points?!
Combined with your own (hwsteele) market timing, there "should" be some confluence, no?

From a personal perspective, most of my Gann knowledge started off with Gann management company, (Fred Stafford, Gann Management Ltd - FREE W D Gann Seminar, FREE WD Gann Video & Lessons, 28 years teaching W. D. Gann's Trading Method ) and Lambert Gann, Gann Technical Review - The W. D. Gann Experience - Lambert Gann Educators ), where I learned about the seasonal cycles, and the Square of 9 stuff. Loved doing the maths, but never really used it as a trading tool.
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Old May 27, 2009, 4:28pm   #6
 
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hwsteele started this thread OK, I'm not going into any kind of big time back ground on Gann as anyone can look him up on google and find out about his bio for free.
What I will do is say that Gann was a financial astrologer. Most of what I have found that he used was actually quite easy to use.
He did not write about the astrology in his books directly but hid the information in them. He wanted people who were willing to study to be able to find it, not just anyone.
In other words if you were willing to work for it, you could find it.
I have attached a link to a free astrology program that you can down load and use to follow along with this thread. Also you may want to use it for your own experiments.

Astrolog Downloads

I also want to make know that I will be starting a different thread for the square of nine.
The reason for that is because there is so much to talk about the Gann wheel in and of it's self I don't want to have to wait to get to it in this thread.
Plus it would make it much easier to reference if anyone would like to read just about it and not all the other Gann stuff.
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Old May 28, 2009, 6:47pm   #7
 
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hwsteele started this thread Gann left clues all over the place as to the fact that he used astrology.
The most obvious to me is the symbol used for his publishing company.
Take a look at it in the picture of his commodities course.
If you know nothing about astrology then it would mean nothing to you.
If you do, then you should be able to spot the implications right away.

This post will be a small lesson in basic astrology.

At this point in time all you really need to know is what a horoscope is.
It's a "picture" of where the planets are in relation to each other from a specific prospective at any one moment in time.
For our work the prospective is earth.
The planets separation from each other is measured in degrees.
There are 360 degrees is a circle (duh), and that 360 is divided in to twelve sections of 30 degrees each.
At this point we will NOT be using the "signs" of the zodiac, or the 30 degree sections.
The relationships of the planets are what we will be looking at.

Now most people think that a horoscope is an interpretation of what the stars and planets mean. All a horoscope really is, is the snapshot of the planets at an instant of time.
SO, we need to take the path that Gann did with the interpretation.
To be able to do that we need to learn about "aspects".
An aspect is a specific separation in degrees of two or more planets.
Aspects are named after geometric shapes.

First one is a triangle.
Triangles have three sides, so you divide the 360 degrees of a circle by three to get 120 degrees. If two planets are 120 degrees from each other they a said to be "trine" each other.
So "trine" is the 120 degree aspect.

Second one is a square.
They have four sides so you divide the 360 degrees of a circle by 4 to get 90 degrees.
So "square" is the 90 degree aspect.
At this point we only have two other aspects to learn. They are not named after shapes and the names of them should tell you why.

The first is the "opposition" aspect.
That's when two planets are on the opposite side of the 360 degrees of a circle, or 180 degrees apart.

The second is the "conjunction" aspect.
That's when two planets are at the same degree of the 360 degrees of a circle.

So a quick list of the four aspects we will be looking at:
1: conjunction. 0 degrees
2: opposition. 180 degrees
3: trine. 120 degrees
4: square. 90 degrees.

We will not be using these aspects like traditional astrology.
We will not be assigning evil or good to them.
All we need to know is that these four aspects have proven important for scientific reasons.
Now here is one of those "you need to work for it" moments.
If you want to learn why the above aspects are important you will need to do your own studying. I don't mean important for astrology but from a gravitational point of view. (think moon, sun, and tides.)


The path that Gann took was trying to find out what moved the markets. He did years of studies to find out.
He settled on the planets with good reason. He didn't start with them but with all things scientific, and found that they held the best explanation of the market for him.
Now if he had computers and the internet I'm sure his studies would have taken months instead,
BUT
Because he didn't he had to do it all by hand. For that reason he was able to see things that only years of looking at information turns up.
If you spend 5 years looking at something instead of 5 months you will most likely gain more insight. That's just my belief any way.

SO

This is where this thread is going to take a bit of a turn that you might not have expected. (Or knowing my style, maybe you did.)
From this point on I'm not going to be posting things that I have found Gann most likely used, we are going to take the same kind of learning trip that he did.
We will be looking at things and coming up with our own ideas about them from todays markets.
Along the way I will point to things that we find that Gann most likely used.
But we will have to "find" them first.
Don't worry, this will be a "guided" educational trip, and we know he used the planets so we can save LOTS of time by starting with them.


P.S. Look at the picture again and maybe now you will have a better idea of what that trademark symbol meant to Gann.
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Old Jun 2, 2009, 1:30am   #8
 
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hwsteele started this thread Today's Gann lesson will be looking at something that has already been talked about just a little by two folks on a different thread in this Ju-Ju forum.

As I said before we know that for Gann the planets explained the markets movements the best.
That we know.
We also know that he looked at things from a scientific stand point. Meaning he got an idea and then checked against historical data and many markets.
So we will do the same.

If planets effect the way people think and or act then it must do so in some sort of physical way.
Either gravitationally or with radiation would seem to be the top two reasons to me.
So using the above logic we can hypothesize that the Sun and the moon have the greatest effects on us here on Earth.

So we will start by looking at those two bodies.

We already know that the sun and moon cause the tides so it's not a stretch to think that those two could have an effect on us also.

In what's come to be known as Gann's Master Stock Market Course Gann give us a big clue about the Sun and Moon.
The Master Stock Market Course is really a compilation of articles and courses that Gann wrote and sold back in the day. It wasn't til much later in his life that they were put together and sold as these courses. (Stock Market and Commodities Master Courses.)
In the Stock course he included a section called "Method for Forecasting the Stock Market. The Human Body."
It is in that section that he give us two of many clues that he used planetary relationships to forecast the mark.

He wrote in that section:
"Important daily changes occur every seven to ten days."

Now I will give you a little hint here. Any one who has gone through my old timing thread before already know what causes this.

He went on to write:
"During the month NATURAL changes in trend occur around the 6th and 7th, 9th to 10th, 14th to 15th, 19th to 20th, 23rd to 24th, 29 to 31st."

When you do investigation into what Gann was talking about you will find that he was talking about the relationship between the Sun and Moon.
Turns out that we can deduce from the above that Gann used the "new moon to new moon" cycle to time the markets on daily charts.
The " new moon to new moon" cycle is 29.53 days long and actually last longer than it takes for the moon to orbit the earth. You will have to do a little work to understand why that is. Just google it and it will be easy to figure out.

A quick little side note:
Any time you are reading anything that Gann wrote and he uses the word "NATURAL" he is talking about the planets.
That includes the Sun and Moon.
So above where he said "NATURAL changes" that means changes that are caused by or at least able to be timed by planets.
Remember, Gann hid everything he used in his books to be found by people who would just use their heads and do a little work.

Now lets take the length of the time from new moon to new moon, Gann used this length of time for his Moon calculations because that's what they use to calculate the tide.
Another indication he was looking at things from a scientific stand point.
Now lets divide the moons orbit into half, and thirds, and quarters to get the important relationships with the sun.
remember the aspects from the other post.
29.53 / 2 is 14.765
29.53 / 3 is 9.84
29.53 / 4 is 7.38
By looking at the above numbers you can now see what Gann was talking about every 7 to ten days and the other days in the month.

You also need to understand that he was not talking about the month like you and I think about it, He was talking about the month in a general timing way.
As in "a month of time".
In other words your "month" starts on an important high or low, not when it says so on a calendar.
So go to a chart of the SPX to start and then others later and find a important high or low.
Now add the following number of CALENDAR days to that high or low.
7
9
14
19
22/23
29
You will almost always land on a pivot day.
Remember to count the important high or low as "0" and not "1".

Now I am going to make two little notes here about myself.
First:
I stumbled on the moon timing all by my self from ideas I got from looking at different things on my own. I did the work and found it works out well by my self. A year or so later I read the Gann stock course.
Because of that those numbers that he put in his book stood out to me.
I am not saying this to brag but to get the point across that if you will follow your own ideas and do the work, allot of times you will be able to see things in other's work that you would have missed before.
I am able to unlock allot of what Gann wrote because of that.

Second:
Over 80% of the forecasting I do in my SPX forecasting thread is with this method here.
That's right folks, If you go back in that thread you will be able to see what I was talking about when I said that this dates points to that date. Just add the following numbers to any turn date that looks important in the SPX.
7
9
14
19
22
29
You will find that doing so give you pivot dates that work very well most of the time.

Work with the days a little to see what you like better.
7
9
14
19
22
29
Are the numbers I like to use.
Maybe you would like to round it to other numbers like:
7
10
14
19
23
29
See what you like.
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