learning to read price action with p/f charts

This is a discussion on learning to read price action with p/f charts within the Technical Analysis forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by timsk Good advice Emo' with one notable exception - there's no need to send peeps over to ...

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Old Apr 24, 2010, 3:32pm   #61
Joined Nov 2008
Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

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Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Good advice Emo' with one notable exception - there's no need to send peeps over to ET for a solid intro to P&F - we have it all here!

Point and Figure Charting: Part 1 - The Basics
Point and Figure Charting: Part 2 - The Bits That Aren't As Basic
. . . and if the first two articles get your juices flowing, you can go on to this:
Point & Figure Gone High Tech
Enjoy!
Tim.
Sorry Tim, wasn't aware of this information on t2w.
I've read them myself, and one interesting point that stood out for me was the fact where they showed that PnF charts made up out of 1 minute close data instead of tick data would produce nicer and more reliable charts. I have seen this myself because I use Interactive broker as my data deliverer. They don't have historical tick data so when I renew a chart all history is made out of 1 minute close data while the real time gathered data is made out of tick data.
I was only brainstorming on this fact because in the PnF charts we have thrown out Time and now we would embed it again...a little bit controversial...

But nice to read.

Hey Tim, I read somewhere that you started around 2006 with PnF charts. Are you daytrading with it? And how are you doing using PnF charts? Are you using other TA stuff or only PnF?

Cheers,
Emotion
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 3:55pm   #62
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

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emotion..i dont think that ninja trader is right for p/f day trading.first of all,the "x" and the "o" must be properly formed and not squat or elongated.so that means you can draw the 45 degree trendlines to show the trend properly.i know from other ninja users,that they are going to rejig the p/f at some point.keep to 45 degree trendlines.you get a better feel
the other thing is that they must be calculated properly.so that you can look at close and hilo plot.so therefore,you can look at all aspects.althought,in day trading,a good starting point is 1 min close plot.make sure the columns are not too long
the solution is....dont use ninja for the final decision,especially with the tick plot
if you have iq feed,there is a simple solution.buy bullseye/cost $149.then add "qcollector" which is $99.you can then programme in qcollector to get any data you want,ie tick,1minute etc.it is slightly limited.but carl,the owner of bullseye is soon to come out with a real time version
even better.use updata at $75 a month.it will take iq feed
Thanks for your response and help Dentist!

You are right, working with such horrible charts is impossible. I was already planning to switch to InvestorRT, are they any good that you know? I use Interactive Brokers as my real time data feat and also as my Broker, that's why I am withholding from Bullseye, and because it doesn't have real time support yet.

Du Plessis said somewhere in his book that for day trading and the shorter time frames e.g. E-mini SP500 0.25x3 that the 45% trend lines wouldn't work. I can't test it at this moment as you pointed it out already, but what is your opinion about this?

We spoke about entering a trade already, it seems that you are following the rules of Du Plessis mostly. What about closing a position? Only when a trade goes through a trend line?

The nice trades I have noticed in my short period of PnF trading is waiting for a nice pattern to set up in line with the trend and then closing on the first dubble top/bottom sell signal. When you have charts created by 1 minute close data (not the tick) I see in good strong trends that there is mostly a very nice trend without any double top/bottom sell signal in it.

If you would have read the book of du Plessis earlier my trading career would have looked very difference ;-) Dentist, how long are you already trading with PnF charts? Are you using other TA methods too or only the PnF charts? And what kind of trading do you do with it e.g. day trading, swing trading?

Thanks,
Emotion
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 5:19pm   #63
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread updata will take the feed from interactive brokers.it costs $75 a month.
not sure where you read that p/f will not work for e mini s500.only thing i can think of is log box
investor r/t,the charts ...from what i have seen .i am not sure whether they are any better than ninja.the "x" and o are not formed properly.ie elongated or squat.working with bad charts with p/f is dangerous.
exits,either p/f signal or trail stop

QUOTE=EmotionIsTheBigEvel;1111222]Thanks for your response and help Dentist!

You are right, working with such horrible charts is impossible. I was already planning to switch to InvestorRT, are they any good that you know? I use Interactive Brokers as my real time data feat and also as my Broker, that's why I am withholding from Bullseye, and because it doesn't have real time support yet.

Du Plessis said somewhere in his book that for day trading and the shorter time frames e.g. E-mini SP500 0.25x3 that the 45% trend lines wouldn't work. I can't test it at this moment as you pointed it out already, but what is your opinion about this?

We spoke about entering a trade already, it seems that you are following the rules of Du Plessis mostly. What about closing a position? Only when a trade goes through a trend line?

The nice trades I have noticed in my short period of PnF trading is waiting for a nice pattern to set up in line with the trend and then closing on the first dubble top/bottom sell signal. When you have charts created by 1 minute close data (not the tick) I see in good strong trends that there is mostly a very nice trend without any double top/bottom sell signal in it.

If you would have read the book of du Plessis earlier my trading career would have looked very difference ;-) Dentist, how long are you already trading with PnF charts? Are you using other TA methods too or only the PnF charts? And what kind of trading do you do with it e.g. day trading, swing trading?

Thanks,
Emotion[/QUOTE]
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 5:41pm   #64
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread s & p 500
10 min data
a blank canvas

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Old Apr 24, 2010, 6:00pm   #65
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread price is in a consolidation.so went down to the 1 minute data plot
because price action was a bit crazy and unworkable in a 3 box reversal.i went down to 2 box reversal to see if i could make sense of the price action

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Old Apr 24, 2010, 6:06pm   #66
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread not an easy one to trade.the doown thrust was well behaved.aswell as the upthrust.it stuck to the bullish /bearish lines.after that,then things became more erratic
0.75 box size by 2 reversal.hilo plot
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 6:13pm   #67
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread if the bullish and bearish sections become erratic like that,i always walk away.in my opinion,the market is confused and the trends are too erratic
cable...gbp usd 10 min
an orderly chart...no mess...maybe ,it will get messy..if it does ,then i will find another tradeable instrument

p/f does bring order to the chart and sorts out the chaos.something that does not happen with other charts..imho

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Old Apr 24, 2010, 6:20pm   #68
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

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Originally Posted by EmotionIsTheBigEvel View Post
Hey Tim, I read somewhere that you started around 2006 with PnF charts. Are you daytrading with it? And how are you doing using PnF charts? Are you using other TA stuff or only PnF?
Hi Emotion,
I've used them on and off over the years depending on what I was trading. They are not the easiest chart to use for day trading stocks IMO because the box size will vary from one stock to the next. This is a complete pain if you're watching lots of stocks during the day. However, this year, I've decided to restrict myself to futures - starting with the YM and now I'm about to switch to the ES. And yes - I will will indeed be using P&F charts to trade the ES.

Interestingly, you mention Investor RT in your post to dentist007 - who doesn't seem impressed with them! I'm about to open an account with them having demo'd their software this week. I totally disagree with d007 - I think the Investor RT P&F charts are among the best I've ever seen. They knock spots off both TradeStation's and eSignal's. They're drawn perfectly (to my way of thinking) and you can draw 'true' 45 degree trendlines very easily. Support seems excellent too. I'm very excited about using them; once I know my way around the software a bit more - I'll post some charts of the ES up here. In the meantime, you can see some of their P&F charts here:
Investor RT P&F Charts
NB - not all the charts are Investor RT's - some are MarketDelta's - so check the logo in the top left hand corner! I know d007 particularly likes his charts to have perfect square boxes so that the aspect ratio is 1:1. I tend to agree with him on this and while not all the charts on the linked webpage show this (i.e. some are squashed or elongated), there is a facility in the Investor RT P&F preferences to set the charts to a perfect square for those of us that want it.
Enjoy,
Tim.
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 6:36pm   #69
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread tim
lets see some investor r/t charts.the ones i swa look skewed
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 6:37pm   #70
 
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Re: learning to read price action with p/f charts

dentist007 started this thread tim
if you post the screenshot.i would like to see the formation of the "x" and o "s
do they form immediatley like that,or do you have to adjust the size of the chart..??
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