Intrabar trade signals versus close of bar trade signals

JTrader

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Hi

whether trading on a mechanical or discretionary basis, traders are faced with a choice of entering or exiting trades on an intrabar or close of bar basis.

if trading on an EOD basis, you would naturally be entering trades on a close of bar basis.

With regard to exits from trades, it is more likely that these will be generated on an intrabar basis - perhaps by your stop-loss etc.

On timeframes < daily, with regards to trade entries, if the TA criteria has been met for a trade entry, some traders will will enter trades on an intrabar basis, while others may think that it is important to see the whole bar (close of the bar) before placing a trade, and will look for the TA criteria that would have signalled the entry on an intrabar basis, to still be relevant and in place at the close of the bar before entering the trade.

My questions are - do you prefer to see the close of the bar before entering/exiting a trade, or do you enter/exit trades on an intrabar basis, if the relevant criteria has been met, if so, why?

And, are you trading on a mechanical or discretionary basis?

Cheers

jtrader.
 
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Think what you will do in five mins time, and then do it now.pre-emptive strike.so I would say I am a discretionary kind of trader with a little TA chucked in for a flavour
 
Thanks badtrader for getting the ball rolling.

So are you saying that you prefer to enter (and exit) trades on an intrabar basis, rather than a close of bar basis?

Cheers

jtrader.
 
jtrader said:
Thanks badtrader for getting the ball rolling.

So are you saying that you prefer to enter (and exit) trades on an intrabar basis, rather than a close of bar basis?

Cheers

jtrader.
Basically what I said in post 2. Sometimes I wait for the bar to close, other time I don't
 
Hi

judging from the 2 responses so far, alongside the 110 views, I am guessing that people are thinking that my questions were crap and pointless, but I could be wrong!

If anyone does think that the questions are crap and pointless, please feel free to let me know why (no offence will be taken!) :)

Many thanks

jtrader.
 
Hi
I use a combination of indicators and bar charts for my entry and exit on a EOD basis , so my entry/Exit
is set on the previous day. I then set a alert for the entry/exit and take action when the alerts are reached
So I dont wait till the end of the bar if the alert is interday.
Sometimes it is the right decision sometimes not.
However if I wait untill the EOD then I could miss most of the trade.
 
if trading on an EOD basis, you would naturally be entering trades on a close of bar basis.

This is pretty much impossible to do. If the bar (market) is closed you can't enter the trade (plus liquidity may be poor). Best to find other ways in my view.
 
Tuffty said:
This is pretty much impossible to do. If the bar (market) is closed you can't enter the trade (plus liquidity may be poor). Best to find other ways in my view.

Point well made .. you need to exit EOD MOC.

As to the orginal question, one man´s intra bar is another man`s close of bar.
You can take a popular TF like say 3M and then act on the candlestick after 2min 50 secs.
Just dont get killed in the rush.

Another way to look at it, is that most people get their entry wrong ( we are talking trading here)
and it would be fair to suppose that a lot of people screw up at the same place .. so there is your liquidity if you just wait until the bar closes.
Mixing your TF´s is possibily a better way of thinking. If you get a 13M exhaustion bar and the same at say 3M plus a decent lump of volume preceeding or accompanying, then the little bugger is highly likely to turn the corner. You can fade this corner for minimal risk and then when the breakout signal comes within the next few bars the clever breakot Traders will give you the volume you are looking for to sweep your position along.Then dump some of your lots and bring your stop in. This will bring you into profit and you can manage your trade from there,
knowing that it is not longer a question of "if", but "how much profit"

Not necessarily the answer you are looking for I am afraid , but the only certainty in the markets is that there are Buyers & Sellers.
 
I don't think of the action in terms of single bars. It's like a movie for me, so I like to watch several timeframes at once (from daily to 30 secs). Watching the smaller timeframe bars forming gives me an idea of how the bigger time frames came to be. So I guess that makes me an intra-bar kinda gal.
JO
 
Welcome back JO. :)

Take one glitchy old Super-8 projector and set it to variable speed. An imaginary click of the switch, though quite possible on a lazy Eumig with worn drive belts. But useful if one is to watch the market movie with an adequate degree of realism, imho. Some scenes will creep by in a dull sepia smog, while others flash past in a vivid blur (the meaning of both usually sneaking around my comprehension). Orders will cluster and fire off simultaneously (well fifo) around certain obvious price points, adding jerkiness. Any frame of the movie may be suffused with rich detail for the attentive - subliminal plot spoilers, even - but expect several cat hairs to populate the lens to help obscure them. Still it is an excellent challenge to try and identify with the characters, their motivations and likely reactions to new prices, given the plot so far, the weight of longer timeframes pressing down and the partially ad-libbed script flashing through T&S.

Sorry for my rubbish post, but at least it's not about site protocol. :)
 
Interesting analogies JumpOff and frugi. frugi, does this make you an intrabar & close of bar (or any point in the bar) entry and exit trader as well?

Many thanks

jtrader.
 
Are we leading to a point of view that time bars aren't that relevent? This is because the market constantly speeds up and slows down thus making any uniform recording of price over constant time irrelevent!
 
if you were to back test and compare the difference in results between the two ideas, you would find little difference in the end result of a large distribution of trades.

this is because the entry point really isnt as important as most think it is in overall success. the exit is the key issue.

remember also that retail traders probably account for around 5-7% of total volumes in any market if that.

guys, im sorry to break this to you, but your just a pimple on the markets butt.

have you ever thought that most of the volume on an intraday basis isn't even based on charts, but market levels and perceived value with other markets in the same complex.

point - how many exits are based on a chart/bar completion? very few. at least half of all exits (stop loss or profit targets) for many traders (retail or otherwise) will be based on their account - ability to withstand pain and hope (fixed $ stop or $ target). if your entry is based on a bar basis, shouldnt your exit also be based on this? (there is no correct answer - just the end result.) but if your exit isnt determined by the bar, and thats the most important part of the trade, then why should the entry be?

i would say that longer term traders - those looking to hold a position for a few days+ are more likely to base their orders on a chart.
 
charliechan said:
if you were to back test and compare the difference in results between the two ideas, you would find little difference in the end result of a large distribution of trades.

this is because the entry point really isnt as important as most think it is in overall success. the exit is the key issue.

remember also that retail traders probably account for around 5-7% of total volumes in any market if that.

guys, im sorry to break this to you, but your just a pimple on the markets butt.

have you ever thought that most of the volume on an intraday basis isn't even based on charts, but market levels and perceived value with other markets in the same complex.

point - how many exits are based on a chart/bar completion? very few. at least half of all exits (stop loss or profit targets) for many traders (retail or otherwise) will be based on their account - ability to withstand pain and hope (fixed $ stop or $ target). if your entry is based on a bar basis, shouldnt your exit also be based on this? (there is no correct answer - just the end result.) but if your exit isnt determined by the bar, and thats the most important part of the trade, then why should the entry be?

i would say that longer term traders - those looking to hold a position for a few days+ are more likely to base their orders on a chart.

Couldnt agree more CC.
If I may advance your thoughtful comments one step more, I would add this for short term traders....
From the bars, bracket the price with exits ( profit and stop loss) Then enter on limit , or market if the price is already within your risk zone. So that your risk is always predefined. If you get filled settle back and manage the bracket. If you are not filled, move on.
It is all about managing risk and yet our conformist / winning upbringing drags us to the entry like a moth to a flame.
In fact the image of a burning moth is not unlike that of a maxed out trader.
 
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