To spread or not to spread?

fhb
ESignal's $INDU symbol is the DJIA itself. It is an index calculated real time from the transactions taking place on the NYSE in the constituent stock. You cannot trade that symbol at all. There are many derivative instruments (ie futures, options, tracker stocks etc) that are based on the index and traded on Exchanges like individual stocks. The SB offerings are NOT traded on exchanges. They are their own derivatives. Other than following a real-time quotes graph from the SB provider itself (IG have the faclity for example) it is a question of following the one(s) that give the most accurate clues to the SB derivative movement. The underlying instruments that influence SB quotes most rapidly (during market hours anyway) are the current most liquid futures contracts. In the case of the DOW there are at least 2 - the YM #F and the DJ #F - both ESignal symbols. However, you may have to pay the relevant exchange fees before you can use them. Also, they will always be at least a bit higher than $INDU and the SB quote. This is a function of what is known as the 'fair value' price of the future which takes account of the costs of holding a contract to maturity. Right now it is over 30 points because the March future is now closed and we're working with the June one (mainly). You need to research futures etc and could do worse than persusing the educational stuff on the web sites of the various futures exchanges (LIFFE, CBOT etc)
They are NOT markets - they are derivatives that are not even traded on markets.
See above. The only way to do that is if your SB provider were to stream their prices to ESignal - which they are simply NOT going to do. Otherwise the best you can do is watch the various proxies mentioned above. This is a good illustration of why SB derivatives are not optimum for real-time intra-day trading - you simply cannot use them for 'scalping' - unless you are clairvoyant of course.

HI!!

Anyone know the where i can go to bet the DAILY DOW with the lowest spread?

Hope you're becoming a little less confused after reading Peter's _excellent_ explanations?

I can appreciate your wanting to move from Fins to some other company. If it helps, I can offer you the observations that deal4free have rather a poor record for customer service (and if you look all around here and on some other internet forums, you'll see that I'm perhaps putting it mildly) whereas CapSpreads are exactly the opposite.

The market you're trading, by definition, _can't_ be exactly the one you're watching (and least of all from eSignal, which has certainly had its share of problems recently if its subscribers are to be believed!) because, exactly as Peter has pointed out, what you're trading this way is a derivative of a derivative: it isn't anything "real". But IMHO that doesn't necessarily matter very much. At least if you use the CapitalSpreads "Wall Street Cash Daily" or "Wall Street Rolling Daily" you can be sure that any "pip-difference" between what you're looking at and what you're trading will be the same when you close your trade as it was when you opened your trade, so why worry about it anyway?

The only difference between "Wall Street Cash Daily" and "Wall Street Rolling Daily", as far as I'm aware, is that a position on the former closes itself out automatically at the end of the day whereas one on the latter will stay open overnight (which I wouldn't fancy, myself). But their customer service people are brilliant and will happily give you a full explanation anyway.

By the way, for looking at the Dow (or any other US and most European indices) you might (at some point, if not now) like to know that ProRealTime is widely regarded as very similar to eSignal but very much more reliable and versatile, and a fraction of the price. (They also have a free trial available, if you want to have a look at it for yourself).

I hope I've helped rather than added to the confusion!

try finspread Rolling Dow is only 4 points

I have merged these two threads as the question just asked by ketank has already been asked within this thread.

maybe , but in reality there are few futures worthwhile trading o/s of mkt hours.

who I think are fools should not matter to you . what you think of yourself as a person and as a trader is the important thing . I should hope you know this , as well as the widely accepted maxim that illiquid markets are bad for trading.

I hope you know why ? are you going to ask ?

I'll save you the throuble and tell you right now .

let's say the dow is closed , and the dow emini globex is doing 2 bid x 1 ask , with equally thin volumes either way . you have strong " gut " feeling that the mkt will shoot up when it opens , you dive in and take the ask of 1 lot. the mkt then moves 3 tics you way , you feel like like a clever soandso.

then another not clever guy enters and sees the mkt now 2 bid x 3 ask , and he thinks he is Mr. big as he has 15 lots to play with . so of course , he sells all 16 at mkt .

the mkt being thin can't really take it and it slips 18 tics due to lack of volume , so you are now net 15 tics down from entry .

and so and so forth . you are down not because of anyhing to do with the real market but due to the piddly vols on so called 24 markets.

this will very rarely happen on SBs.

Very clear what Q's , go post # 32.

I'm being objective about the topic which better than you who makes unbacked claims.

there number of posts is nothing , it's what you say that counts.

there IS more than 1 way to trade , but I sure as hell can't see how your method would work .

Roberto, that's excellent, and thanks to PeterPR again.

Today I tried out the Capitalspreads simulated account and found it much quicker and simpler than Finspreads. I was paying close attention to the Wall Street Rolling prices and they seemed pretty well locked onto the values coming up on e-Signal. I managed to scrape a few points together on CS and Finspreads with a real trade but the difference is amazing; FS prices were miles away from INDU. You'll be pleased to hear I have applied for a CS account and hope to hear from them tomorrow.

I filled in the Deal4free application yesterday, thinking it may take a while and was intending to wait for a bit to deposit funds, but I got a call from a rep today asking if I had any questions and checking up on my proof of identity. They seem pretty keen to get me on board quickly. But I may have to let them down as I've now decided to try CS first as most people seem to rate them higher.

If CS turn out as good as they sound I may just stick with them. Direct Access is something I may try in the future though. It seems to me that if you can find a good SB firm that just takes the spread and doesn't try to bias too much in their favour that there would be little to choose between spread betting and direct access.

I shall check out ProRealTime. I've got quite used to e-Signal now and find it very good, it doesnt seem to lock up on me and I've found the support is great. That's not to say I'm not interested in something else as good if it saves me some cash.