Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious?

This is a discussion on Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious? within the Psychology, Risk & Money Management forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by foroom lluzers I will use my own words , most here won't like them. The trading industry ...

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Old Jul 15, 2017, 11:40pm   #61
 
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Originally Posted by foroom lluzers View Post
I will use my own words , most here won't like them.

The trading industry knows the importance of trading psychology , brokers have tried taking on traders to trade for them on salaries and they have also offered investing schemes (for their own selected traders to trade invested monies).The results were appalling , they lost for investors.

The whole trading industry benefactors , rely on hiding the importance of trading psychology , in order to attract new traders to open accounts.If a broker , mentor or vendor , was to advertise "you will lose because the traders are wired to lose " , nobody from the vendor side is going to make money .This is because they won't attract new traders , the brokerage model relies on new recruits to replace the losers of this year. Mentors will not get new subscribers and educators will lose out .It is all against the interests of trading industry vendors , to inform them about the psyche .

There are forums like forex factory , where there is no psychology sections and there are other forums where psychology threads are debunked and the content rebutted and dismissed .Forex factory has advertisers , some of them are bucket shops , they gain when traders lose.So why introduce a psychology section?Give them 2500 trading systems and let the blind lose their money.Your paymaster is the bucket shops , do what benefits your paymaster.

Everything in the trading industry is marketed on a positive criteria , of trade the system and you will make money , buy my method and you will make money , buy my book and you will make money.Buy my trend trading seminars and books , you will make money.

These suckers don't know the truth , until they go on a live account , there they experience 80% is psychology.These suckers were sucked into it by the advertising and promotion of trading and making money.This works well and humans have greed about money , so the the suckers who fell for it end up in the 95% club.


I liked your post
of course..the requirement for large turnover started with the demise of the cozy cartels..or gentlemen's clubs..all details can be found with a simple bit of research..but why would anyone bother to do that..that requires some serious thought and a bit of work

there is but one word that sums it all up..and that is ignorance..the majority who venture into the big financial world of trading are ignorant..and haven't the first clue what is going on..for if they did..they would not throw their money away to cunning salesmen

almost everything out there in relation to trading has but one goal..suck in the suckers..and it works every time..hell..they have even come up with tax free trading..what a joke..for..on the off chance that you are one of the smart ones who can actually make money spread betting..and do it full time with no other income..it then becomes taxable as it is your sole source of income

it is a bit like governments..things will really never change..no matter who is in..so best to just be aware of same and use it to your advantage..just take the money and run like the rest of them do
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 9:49am   #62
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Originally Posted by Lúidín View Post
No one can answer the question for anyone else, but we can make assumptions by reading what people post.

I think that what people fail to realize, is that there is a required learning curve in "the art of losing", as this goes against all we have been taught with our archaic education system.

How can someone in their right mind, start making money by learning how to lose money!

Have you ever seen any person post in a thread, asking for someone to show them how to lose correctly?

Also, learning how to lose correctly is but the start, for if you become an expert at only losing, then you will "obviously" not make any money.

If a person is not aware, and willing to radically change, the way they normally think then the odds of succeeding is very low, and that person will more than likely join the stats, which I have no doubt is indeed around 95%, if not even a bit higher.

Lúidín
Now I will answer this post .

When you have mastered the art of losing correctly , then you are ready to start trading live , until then practice free demo accounts , without testing the real emotions of losing real money.

Nobody likes taking a loss , a loss is twice as powerful as a profit , a loss on demo has no feelings.Where do you train how to lose correctly?On simulators ?

Follow successful people in football and learn their attributes ,not some forum bloke who is not successful and has other agendas , apply their successful attributes to trading.Base your trading on defensive trading , trading not to lose , get it right and you will start winning.As an example I apply strategies that are defensive , based on Jose Mourinho. Most traders play attacking football in the markets , then leave themselves open to huge risks of loss.Every trading strategy on the internet is attacking strategy , attacking to win money in the markets.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...-chelsea-style

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/indi...ml#post2934076

Write a book " how not to lose in markets " or start threads on defensive trading or how not to lose .

BTW my own strategy is defensive , like Jose Mourinho.

Ask these forum professionals and successful forum traders "why are you still on forums , if you are making 90 % profitable trades , why are you not making 400 % a year or 2,000 % a year ".They won't answer.They only show profitable trades.


I have written about 15 threads on trading psychology and recommend about 20 others in this forum.
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 10:42am   #63
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Originally Posted by foroom lluzers View Post

Ask these forum professionals and successful forum traders "why are you still on forums , if you are making 90 % profitable trades , why are you not making 400 % a year or 2,000 % a year ".They won't answer.They only show profitable trades.

Ok, I will.

"Why are you still on forums" ?

I know the answer. Because it takes one to know one.

We like to push our opinions down everyone else's throats.

A written post gives everyone a chance to express that opinion. In a pub, or a chat show on the radio, no one listens and there is a danger that it can end up in a mindless squabble.
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 11:04am   #64
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Ok, I will.

"Why are you still on forums" ?

I know the answer. Because it takes one to know one.

We like to push our opinions down everyone else's throats.

A written post gives everyone a chance to express that opinion. In a pub, or a chat show on the radio, no one listens and there is a danger that it can end up in a mindless squabble.
The missing link in my trading is this

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/psyc...ml#post2934032

Do you know why traders get sucked into taking much higher position sizes , this is done by the subconscious automatic mind in trading.

regularly I get sucked in.

Secondly I don't mind solving some trading problems and share my knowledge.
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Thanks! The following members like this post: Splitlink
Old Jul 16, 2017, 11:49am   #65
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Originally Posted by foroom lluzers View Post

regularly I get sucked in.
I do, too.
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 11:58am   #66
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I do, too.
I put on a trade , the price does the opposite , so my subconscious mind takes over and wants to win.Jesus Christ for fxxx sake I did not come here to lose , I want my money back.My mind is set to win , but this trade is screwing me.

I think the price will recover , so I add a position , now I am in adding positions mode , add a second.It has hit my stops .Two hours later the price is rising , and gone in my original direction , without me.

I can't let the market make a monkey out of me.

Trader self sabotage was not something I was prepared for , in my demo trading.

One psychologist , gave a hint , he stated he never looked at the screen or prices moving , after putting on a trade .

Any other successful traders on t2w tell us how they overcame this problem?
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 12:22pm   #67
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Originally Posted by foroom lluzers View Post
I put on a trade , the price does the opposite , so my subconscious mind takes over and wants to win.Jesus Christ for fxxx sake I did not come here to lose , I want my money back.My mind is set to win , but this trade is screwing me.

I think the price will recover , so I add a position , now I am in adding positions mode , add a second.It has hit my stops .Two hours later the price is rising , and gone in my original direction , without me.

I can't let the market make a monkey out of me.

Trader self sabotage was not something I was prepared for , in my demo trading.

One psychologist , gave a hint , he stated he never looked at the screen or prices moving , after putting on a trade .

Any other successful traders on t2w tell us how they overcame this problem?
I rarely add. That is not one of my problems. I look at, what I believe, is a turning point. Calculate how many points it has gone past that point on previous occasions and put my stop "x" points beyond that, to be sure. Then, I let the price creep up until I get stopped. Always, telling myself that the law of averages is on my side and that it will turn into my trade's direction before it reaches the stop.

It never seems to be on my side when I am in the trade, though. Only, when I am not.
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 12:39pm   #68
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I rarely add. That is not one of my problems. I look at, what I believe, is a turning point. Calculate how many points it has gone past that point on previous occasions and put my stop "x" points beyond that, to be sure. Then, I let the price creep up until I get stopped. Always, telling myself that the law of averages is on my side and that it will turn into my trade's direction before it reaches the stop.

It never seems to be on my side when I am in the trade, though. Only, when I am not.
The difference between you and me is , my bet is based on" I don't know what the market is going to do next , but I know 75% of the time supports hold , so I buy support."All my technical success is based on supports , no other t/a.

I understand you trade ftse ,Dax Dow tends to creep up regularly , secondly have you checked you are not trading your emotions?After the event it is all so clear , but before the event , judgement of trade is clouded by emotions.You are also "betting that you know what the market is going to do next " , nobody knows what is going to happen next.

You need to read psychology.
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 1:28pm   #70
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Originally Posted by foroom lluzers View Post
The difference between you and me is , my bet is based on" I don't know what the market is going to do next , but I know 75% of the time supports hold , so I buy support."All my technical success is based on supports , no other t/a.

I understand you trade ftse ,Dax Dow tends to creep up regularly , secondly have you checked you are not trading your emotions?After the event it is all so clear , but before the event , judgement of trade is clouded by emotions.You are also "betting that you know what the market is going to do next " , nobody knows what is going to happen next.

You need to read psychology.
Ok. I'll switch from FT, tomorrow, and see if works better for me. I'm not trading disastrously, I'm trading disappointingly. A lot of wheel spinning.

Good trading, to you,
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 10:58pm   #71
 
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Originally Posted by foroom lluzers View Post
I put on a trade , the price does the opposite , so my subconscious mind takes over and wants to win.Jesus Christ for fxxx sake I did not come here to lose , I want my money back.My mind is set to win , but this trade is screwing me.

I think the price will recover , so I add a position , now I am in adding positions mode , add a second.It has hit my stops .Two hours later the price is rising , and gone in my original direction , without me.

I can't let the market make a monkey out of me.

Trader self sabotage was not something I was prepared for , in my demo trading.

One psychologist , gave a hint , he stated he never looked at the screen or prices moving , after putting on a trade .

Any other successful traders on t2w tell us how they overcame this problem?
whoever that psychologist is..he hasn't a clue about trading
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Old Jul 17, 2017, 12:43am   #72
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whoever that psychologist is..he hasn't a clue about trading
you see the problem ? buy my method it will make you money.There is no psychology involved in trading. pycho stuff is bs cause bucket shops pay me to say so.

Last edited by foroom lluzers; Jul 17, 2017 at 2:52am.
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Old Jul 17, 2017, 2:59am   #73
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The obvious is not so obvious because the governments brainwashed everybody.

Do you think it is humanely possible to sit in front of a screen , the market attacks your account bit by bit , you will not have a reactive revenge trade?When new trader started , he was shown simple systems with 3 moving averages , just use it and you are ready to roll your money into the accounts of bucket shops.

we were born reactive with an ancestral brain , that is subconsciously programmed to take over , be reactive like a cat among pigeons , start attacking anything that causes us pain (the market).We are designed like the pigeons to fear and fly.

Every tick against you is an assault on your judgement about the market /trade , it can play ticks on you in the short term , watching the screen after putting on a trade in an uncertain outcome requires new mental skills , skills we are not born with.


What happens when volatility increases and markets become extremely volatile?This is something , not in the system , they are unprepared for yet they are in the market , even more dangerous is their cognitive skills for trading are broken with doubts about their ability. Poor new traders see their stops taken out , all the money gets into the buckets , because the price moved 100 pip up and down and extreme volatility broke out.

Was anybody mentally ready for this trading?very good psychologist.


Last edited by foroom lluzers; Jul 17, 2017 at 6:58am.
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Old Sep 3, 2017, 6:14pm   #74
 
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I've often wondered about the question of why sometimes the answers that are so obvious don't come to mind on their own? Because everyone thinks differently, sometimes some people need a minute to understand certain things, for others a month won't be enough.
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Old Sep 9, 2017, 11:15pm   #75
 
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Lúidín started this thread Maybe it is as simple as "ignorance"
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