Futures Daytrading Offset Settlements - Need Advice -

Hello Everyone,

I am new here, and new to Futures trading.

I have a problem, and my broker won't give me a straight answer.

On October 23rd I placed six round-trip ESZ8 Futures trades.

My brokers account balance on The morning of October 23rd, 2008 was $7430.88

There were no Open positions from the previous day on the morning of October 23rd,
And no Open positions at the end of the day.

My brokers account balance at the end of the day on October 23rd was $6752.20

Now, my broker charges $8.64 per trade, or 17.28 per round-trip trade.

So when I do the math for this trading day, I come up with a $75.00 loss to my account + total commissions = -178.68

So my account balance should be: $7430.88 - $178.68 = $7252.20

So what happened to the missing $500.00 ???

My broker told me is because of the "Position Offsets Policy" in the Futures trading industry.

But they also say that, no matter how the account is calculated, whether through their "offset procedure" or they way I calculate it, the account balance should be the same.

But again, I'm confused. if you calculate ALL of my round-trip trades that day, the account should be down 1.5 points = $75.00

I am in the wrong here? Do I not understand? Or, has my broker duked me?

Attached, are my Trades on October 23rd, 2008.

What should my balance be at the close of October 23rd?

Any info and advice is appreciated.

Good Day Everyone.

JD

Another View offered by my broker

Here's another view from my broker of my trades on October 23rd, 2008

Am I wrong here? But it seems that my broker has deliberately made it difficult to track how they calculate these trades.

Why all the complicated computations and elusiveness? And what happened to my $500 ?

Looks like you got a problem there. Several problems. I just wrote a long post and I lost the darn thing. Let me brief this time. Are you using optionsxpress? Looks like it. First off, they are way too expensive! There is no reason in the world that you should be paying that kind of commission. Their platform is no good for day trading as well. PM me and I'll tell you a list of about 100 brokers that range from 1.50 - 3.00 per side.

I would get your numbers straight, order numbers ( if you didn't write them all down, then lesson learned) and ask to speak to a manager or have one call you back. The customer service at optionsxpress is pretty good, and they're a reputable company. Just be nice and patient. Sometimes you get a newbie at a call center who gets scared because they don't know the answer, they fill pinned up against the wall, and then when they get offended, watch out. They can tag your account with notes for the next person who picks up your call as well, so just sound patient, friendly, and calm. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it, but don't delay.

I got a really bad fill with optionsxpress one time. Did a pre market option trade, not really knowing how it worked, and it nearly wiped out my account. Through the live chat they fixed my entry price and saved me a bunch of money. Try the live chat, it's normally better than over the phone. Just get all your numbers ready.

If there is a mistake and they don't fix it, then there are plenty of further steps to take. Don't worry. Your money is safe and you'll get it all back. You won't get the commissions back though. Take this oppurtunity to stop trading. Get all your money fixed and cleared and switch brokers. Here's a few:

thinkorswim.com
infinityfutures.com
transactfutures.com (if you're an active trader this is the best way to go.)
globalfutures.com( go with their most expensive commission plan -$5 dollars per side- and get $300 day trading margin on the minis)
Interactive brokers( 10,000 minimum account)
tradestation.com
mbtrading.com

Take your pick, and save a huge amount of money.

One other piece of advice. Don't risk 14 points on the ES. I'm a newbie trader myself, haven't even put real money in yet, but that's a lot of points to risk. I felt your pain when I saw you got from +8 and then lose -14 on one trade. That's just not right. If you're up like that, maybe just risk 1 or 2. Keep your profits. The last thing you want to do is to turn a profitable trade into a negative trade.

Anyway, good luck getting that worked out and let us know what happens.

Maybe you can comment on my new blog too. I'm just preparing a plan to trade the ES. You can watch me lose all my money and give me some advice too.

Help me day trade the ES because I have no idea what I'm doing

I don't know why the link to my blog says that, I can't make it stop . I think that's my title. I didn't want you to think that was intended to you, that's the link to my blog.

Hey, welcome to T2W by the way. I'm new to this forum as well, but have found a lot here already.

fantastic4 said:

Looks like you got a problem there. Several problems. I just wrote a long post and I lost the darn thing. Let me brief this time. Are you using optionsxpress? Looks like it. First off, they are way too expensive! There is no reason in the world that you should be paying that kind of commission. Their platform is no good for day trading as well. PM me and I'll tell you a list of about 100 brokers that range from 1.50 - 3.00 per side.

I would get your numbers straight, order numbers ( if you didn't write them all down, then lesson learned) and ask to speak to a manager or have one call you back. The customer service at optionsxpress is pretty good, and they're a reputable company. Just be nice and patient. Sometimes you get a newbie at a call center who gets scared because they don't know the answer, they fill pinned up against the wall, and then when they get offended, watch out. They can tag your account with notes for the next person who picks up your call as well, so just sound patient, friendly, and calm. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it, but don't delay.

I got a really bad fill with optionsxpress one time. Did a pre market option trade, not really knowing how it worked, and it nearly wiped out my account. Through the live chat they fixed my entry price and saved me a bunch of money. Try the live chat, it's normally better than over the phone. Just get all your numbers ready.

If there is a mistake and they don't fix it, then there are plenty of further steps to take. Don't worry. Your money is safe and you'll get it all back. You won't get the commissions back though. Take this oppurtunity to stop trading. Get all your money fixed and cleared and switch brokers. Here's a few:

thinkorswim.com
infinityfutures.com
transactfutures.com (if you're an active trader this is the best way to go.)
globalfutures.com( go with their most expensive commission plan -$5 dollars per side- and get $300 day trading margin on the minis)
Interactive brokers( 10,000 minimum account)
tradestation.com
mbtrading.com

Take your pick, and save a huge amount of money.

One other piece of advice. Don't risk 14 points on the ES. I'm a newbie trader myself, haven't even put real money in yet, but that's a lot of points to risk. I felt your pain when I saw you got from +8 and then lose -14 on one trade. That's just not right. If you're up like that, maybe just risk 1 or 2. Keep your profits. The last thing you want to do is to turn a profitable trade into a negative trade.

Anyway, good luck getting that worked out and let us know what happens.

Maybe you can comment on my new blog too. I'm just preparing a plan to trade the ES. You can watch me lose all my money and give me some advice too.

Help me day trade the ES because I have no idea what I'm doing

Click to expand...

Some very good advice there, I've highlighted the main points. I don't know why Options Express are so expensive (If that is the broker you are using) because they own Open Ecry which is the broker I use and their commissions are much lower - $5.80/RT. Their platform is brilliant, stable and reliable. I am concerned that if Options Express are now the parent company they will start applying their commission charges

Anyway, take a look at them:
Online Futures Trading - Open E Cry ™ a Direct Access Trading System

Thse are very expensive commisions.
Close the account or demand at least half the current commission rate.

If you are trading an instument with out knollage and expieirance , it not the way to go about things.

Good Luck any how as you will need it

Ahh Haa... Hmm....

Wow.

Great advice from ALL of you.

And now that I am armed with your advice, I am going to have 'the chat' with my broker.

Well, I don't want to reveal the true identity of my broker; ...(you would probably think about this too, if you were in my situation)

Hey! You guys should check out these really groovy web sites:
http://www.option-s.com/
And here's another great one:
Express.com

Fantastic4... you ARE Fantastic. Thank You. And, your title IS my motto. I'm not afraid to say it: I'm a minnow in a sharks tank. I'm a chicken in a wolves den... - I will PM you a bit later.

New_trader... You are so right. It went Off. I had no control at that moment.

TomTom... I have a very good friend named Tom. So you have me right there. Seriously. Thank You for your input.

Thank you ALL so much!

It's nice to see others willing to step up and help someone. I hope I get the chance to do the same for you all sometime.

Anyway, I will keep you informed.

JD

Let us know what happens. Good luck.

What was the outcome of this issue? Did the broker fix it or did you get burned for the $500? In any case, I hope you found a cheaper broker. I chewed my broker down to $4 RT.

Yeah, I'm curious to know too. Hey FCB98292, how many cars are you trading a month? I can't remember for sure, but I believe transact will take you even lower.

Well, I just started with a signal provider out of UT (smptradingsignals.com) and so far so good, but so I am not loading up the wagon yet. I normally trade a dozen, but I only trade once per day.. not much motivation for a broker to steal me from where I am now. I tried to call transact today about margins but their futures guy left at 3pm eastern time. At this point, I get $300 margins on the ES intraday, but I don't use that much leverage. I saw IB kicked their intraday margin up past $6,000... yikes!

Transact is 500 intraday I believe. You'd want high volume at transact because they have like a four hundred dollar a month platform fee. So you'll be saving if you trade a lot, if not, well, you won't. I'll be starting with real money soon with infinityfutures.com. They clear through transact, so commission are about 4.80 round turn, but no fees at all, and really good customer service. They've got the trasnsact platform that I love and they're very fast.

I would like to know what happened to this man. He never posted again. Crazy commissions though! Ouch!

Thanks for the information. Sounds like I had better stay with where I am. I don't pay for anything but the $4 RT. I do recommend smptradingsignals, though.

I do hope that guy is still trading. I need his liquidity. Commissions like that can wear on you. I got my broker down to $4 inclusive and, for a retail trader, I think that's pretty good.