Do I Have to Accept some Big Losses in the Beginning?

This is a discussion on Do I Have to Accept some Big Losses in the Beginning? within the New to Trade2Win forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by timm ...Do your research... timm and black bear, great advice. Sharky, I had very near the exact ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Apr 5, 2008, 9:46pm   #9
 
4 Posts
Joined Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by timm View Post
...Do your research...
timm and black bear, great advice.

Sharky, I had very near the exact same question as you. I began trading with a similar concern about what to expect and even whether the methods I used to develop my strategies were statistically viable.

My research led me to a workshop that Mathemagician teaches (yes, the one active in this forum) which really set me heading in the right direction. I learned statistically proper methods for developing strategies from the ground up, how to assess the live performance of a strategy against the tested performance, and many other concepts.

If you want you can PM me about what we covered and how else I gained, or of course, you can contact Mathemagician directly. In either case, I highly recommend his workshop.

Joey
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
Splatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 6, 2008, 3:02am   #10
Joined Oct 2006
MP -- losses, losses ? We dont need no stinkin losses !

as blackbear so eloquently put forth, its all part of the learning curve and as i firmly believe, (and someones signature also) "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger !"

enough losses and pretty soon you begin asking questions, reviewing what youre doing and establishing new methods of trading.

now i dont do stocks any longer, but with goog you must notice a few things --- if the stock begins the day UNDER its previous days closing price, and then MOVES UP past it, you trade the long side till NO LATER than 11:30 AM, EDT. by noon, it should now be going down to ready itself for the afternoon (approx 2pm, edt) run for the roses !

if the stock is in its FIRST day of moving up, ignore everything and stay in till half an hour before the close, and then get out quick --- if youre gonna hold overnite, your options are a few more. You can exit your position around 10 am, edt, short the coming downside, and then go long the upside move till noon, at which time you exit and short again. NORMALY, on the second day, the stock will move DOWN quickly, as the mms take their profits and scare the living %%%%% out of those who are still holding from the prior day BUT the stock will now rise again, pass its prior days closing price and make its first HOD around 10 - 10:30 am edt. After that, it drops , consolidates and makes its big push for EOD.

ON DAY THREE of the move up, GET OUT BY 10 AM, EDT --- count your profit and DONT look back ! Day three is invariably the GAP UP day, and where the gap up ends will sell off almost immediately, once must grab profit and get the hell out of dodge FAST !

stocks, currencies and baseball cards move in an intraday cyclic time period and while the above times are not written in stone, their "average" is probably well neigh close to 95% of the time, which is good enough for me.

IF YOU ARE IN DAY ONE OR DAY TWO of an upward (or downward) move, you can relax your stop losses tremendously, because the trend, even though the price may drop, will remain UP for 2.5 days and down for essentially the same time, so any trade you enter with the trend, and before that 2.5 days, should always turn a profit for you.

while you need not believe me, take a gander at your charts and see what a price does over the course of a few days --- should be very enlightening !

trading is MORE experience and the resultant knowledge, than gambling and the resultant anxiety ---- TRY the nice peacefull, slow and steady method cause I know it works !

welcome weedhopper --- there will be many more lessons ahead

mp

Last edited by mp6140; Apr 6, 2008 at 2:34pm.
mp6140 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 6, 2008, 10:36am   #11
Joined Jan 2007
No pain no gain imo mp

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp6140 View Post
as blackbear so eloquently put forth, its all part of the learning curve and as i firmly believe, (and someones signature also) "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger !"

enough losses and pretty soon you begin asking questions, reviewing what youre doing and establishing new methods of trading.

now i dont do stocks any longer, but with goog you must notice a few things --- if the stock begins the day UNDER its previous days closing price, and then MOVES UP past it, you trade the long side till NO LATER than 11:30 AM, EDT. by noon, it should now be going down to ready itself for the afternoon (approx 2pm, edt) run for the roses !

if the stock is in its FIRST day of moving up, ignore everything and stay in till half an hour before the close, and then get out quick --- if youre gonna hold overnite, your options are a few more. You can exit your position around 10 am, edt, short the coming downside, and then go long the upside move till noon, at which time you exit and short again.

ON DAY THREE of the move up, GET OUT BY 10 AM, EDT --- count your profit and DONT look back !

stocks, currencies and baseball cards move in an intraday cyclic time period and while the above times are not written in stone, their "average" is probably well neigh close to 95% of the time, which is good enough for me.

IF YOU ARE IN DAY ONE OR DAY TWO of an upward (or downward) move, you can relax your stop losses tremendously, because the trend, even though the price may drop, will remain UP for 2.5 days and down for essentially the same time, so any trade you enter with the trend, and before that 2.5 days, should always turn a profit for you.

while you need not believe me, take a gander at your charts and see what a price does over the course of a few days --- should be very enlightening !

trading is MORE experience and the resultant knowledge, than gambling and the resultant anxiety ---- TRY the nice peacefull, slow and steady method cause I know it works !

welcome weedhopper --- there will be many more lessons ahead

mp
Hi mp

lol, I am sure there will, no pain no gain :-)

Nothing wrong this end mp, lesson was given and taken on the chin, no real damage done to my long term plan only my pride

Did you mention that last week mp

Had nothing whats so ever to do with normal method I use in fact the rest of the week went just fine, no problems at all, took the bike straight back on the track for a couple of laps.

Just got my wires crossed on timeframes on one day after allowing some random thoughts to creep in over a number of trading sessions regards something thats unrelated to what I trade intra day and was just wrong.

Found myself wrong and worse = Wrong without an adequate specific plan to protect me in that timeframe in the moment.

Traded intra day account in the wrong timeframe, a timeframe I am not profitable in, never have been and never at any time said I was. I have only traded longer timeframe with small stakes in the past. =

One off complete idiot

One swallow does not make a summer and vice versa imho. Measures taken to ensure same error will NEVER be repeated.

Seperate account funded, for longer timeframe trades and new plan / rules etc for that timeframe so I do not get wires crossed ever again.

The account is marked at 50% drawdown on its open to allow for that error of judgement, the glass is 1/2 full

see how it goes, if it does not go I am done in the longer timeframes and will remain a weedhopper playing for my usual 7 - 15 pts a day :-)

Last edited by black bear; Apr 6, 2008 at 10:41am. Reason: and was just wrong.......detail
black bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 6, 2008, 9:43pm   #12
 
new_trader's Avatar
Joined Jan 2006
Important Questions BEFORE you begin

1) How much are you prepared to lose before you accept that you are not fit for this profession?

2) How much can you afford to lose before you finally attain success?
__________________
"It always pays a man to be right at the right time." - Jesse Livermore | Less Marx, More Mises

CLICK - My Trading Journal
new_trader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 6, 2008, 10:18pm   #13
 
Crap Buddist's Avatar
Joined Jan 2007
Losing more yields more for some yet less for others who dont like losing

Lose your ego
lose your personal emotion
lose your ambitions
lose your desires
lose your attachment
lose yourself.

Win perspective.

Great trading comes from losing losses. Another BIG ONE.


Lose2win
__________________


"You smell that? Do you smell that? Coin, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Coin in the morning."~ Colonel Coin
Crap Buddist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 11, 2008, 6:30am   #14
 
4 Posts
Joined Apr 2008
Big losses? You should never expect or tolerate big losses. Protecting your equity is the main skill you have to learn. Use a risk/reward system with a ration of 1:3. Enter several positions a day and you might have losing days but they should never be crippling losses.
mjs020294 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2008, 5:27am   #15
Joined Jan 2007
Big losses can happen in the beginning, but the main thing to know is why they happened. For example, were you trading without a stop? Were you day-trading with a mental stop? Were you too slow in getting the stop in after you were filled? Did you pull a stop after placing it?

One suggestion to a new trader is to find your exit first, then find your entry. I've been trading a long time using charts, systems, signals, level II, whatever it takes. I found when day-trading or scalping the best thing to do is find your lean or your out, then decide on the entry technique. The industry (analysts, systems, indicators) put too much emphasis on the entry and almost nothing on the exit. Look at how many guys recommend "buy 2, sell 1 when its in profit, move the stop to break even and you have a free trade." This kind of strategy will get you killed, yet its recommended all over the place. As a beginner you have to learn to read the order flow. You have to know when to be a passive bidder or when to take out an offer. You have to know your edge and develop it. You are going to have losses, but big losses are almost always unrecoverable. The idea is to develop a trader profile. Simply put know what your average win/average loss is. Start with one lots then once you determine your trader profile, increase your size by another unit. Keep up your stats and you will eventually reach a size you are comfortable with.

Last edited by timsk; Sep 26, 2010 at 11:53am. Reason: Housekeeping
jhyerczyk is offline Coach/Trainer   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2008, 2:17pm   #16
Joined Jun 2008
Accept big losses? Only if you've already made them. Use your stops and don't get into anything you don't yet understand. Don't let fear & greed get in the way of your common sense - Use your stops.
Tradez is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In The Beginning jst_trade First Steps 3 Feb 7, 2007 4:33pm
For Beginning Traders ? fxmarkets First Steps 0 Feb 11, 2006 7:08pm
Advice from the beginning please .... city_trader28 First Steps 6 May 11, 2005 11:13am
Tony Blair: Is This The Beginning Of The End? grubs50 The Foyer 67 Jul 21, 2003 11:01am
Today is the beginning or the end? Riz Indices 11 Jan 26, 2001 9:59pm

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)