Realistically, How much Money can I Expect to Make?

This is a discussion on Realistically, How much Money can I Expect to Make? within the New to Trade2Win forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by PualoP This is a complete stab in the dark but, on IG indexes annual accounts it showed ...

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Old Apr 8, 2008, 11:04am   #9
 
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Originally Posted by PualoP View Post
This is a complete stab in the dark but, on IG indexes annual accounts it showed that they made about £2,000 per client, so one could argue that:

"On average, the UK retail trader will expect to lose £2,000 per year"
I think that's a stab in the dark indeed, but when a trader loses money another trader makes a profit. The only profit brokers make comes from spread and commission costs.
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 11:15am   #10
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There's not much I can add to rags2riches' excellent, very comprehensive post.
The journey is the reward indeed. If you focus on the money from the beginning, than you're already a step behind. Focus on the process, focus on understanding trading behaviour and traders. Once you get a more profound understanding of how markets behave, think about risk and money management. But that comes later. And finally, think about how much money you can expect to make based on your backtesting and papertrading. Divide that number by 1.5 and you'll have set yourself a realistic target.
hi FW,

why divide by 1.5. is this what you have found to be correct when comparing your own papertrading/forward testing to actual results when the system/approach hits the real market

just interested to know
cheers

belflan
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 11:20am   #11
 
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Originally Posted by belflan View Post
hi FW,

why divide by 1.5. is this what you have found to be correct when comparing your own papertrading/forward testing to actual results when the system/approach hits the real market

just interested to know
cheers

belflan
I was going to say 2, but that might be an exaggeration. It's best to stay conservative and we all know that when making the transition from papertrading to real trading other elements can come into play. A lot of trader will have observed that their results in real trading don't live up to what their backtesting showed. That's why I think it's healthy to stay realistic. However, the number can be anything between 1 and ... I haven't exactly done any empirical research into the matter. But I hope you see my point.
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Old Apr 11, 2008, 4:32am   #12
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MP -- starving artists indeed !

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Originally Posted by rags2riches View Post
If you need to ask this question then you do not have the correct mentality. Learn to trade and the money will follow. Loads and loads of it.

But in order to learn to trade you need to go through a "starving artist" phase where you are committing loads of time, energy and work without any material reward. This period of time could last 6 months to five years or maybe forever if you have no aptitude. How many people are prepared to do that?

While i totally agree with what you say here, and have often had those very words as my signature, I have some issues with the writer of the book you quote, especially concerning the word "trader ~!"

Fully close to 3/4's of my posts are directed at telling newbs to "get the experience and the money will follow, up to your abilities in the market", but it is NOT 90 % of the TRADERS that FAIL, but 90% of those who enter the field of trading that fail, and its always the same thing --- no experience and blown accounts from NO money management.

trading in and of itself is just NOT brain surgery, although like brain surgeons, there are those in the top 10% and those in the bottom 10% with the majority all running around in the middle ground. Given the time needed to LEARN the culture, rules and methods of trading, most people can do it to varying degrees of success, BUT THEY HAVE TO GET PAST THAT STARVING ARTIST PHASE !

THAT is the 90% who dont make it -- the ones who simply jump on an idea of grand riches with no work (hey, ill get a robot to trade for me, while i tune my maserati !!") and discover down the road that this market is inhabited by the greatest traders there are, and theyre all land sharks, and they eat newbies for breakfast, lunch, snacks and dinner !

as far as the question of "how much can i make", while one certainly should not approach ANY career from that pov, it is understandable if one is seeking to make enough to live on this world, pay bills and all the rest we humans are expected to do, and i can only think that you can "earn to your abilities, interest and amount of work you put into the quest, nothing more or less !"

BUT, if youre decent, learn well and apply that knowledge, you can expect to make a lot more than most "wage slaves" --- a LOT more !

enjoy and trade well

mp

Last edited by mp6140; Apr 11, 2008 at 4:39am.
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Old Apr 11, 2008, 9:00pm   #13
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I average 1-1.5% a week, for what that's worth. (after 16 months.....I am very conservative, and because of it, havent had a losing week since December of last year.)

And as written above.....there is a show called "wall street warriors" here in the US which shows "some of the greatest and brightest traders", and they are flat out moronic.

I dont know if you Brits get it over there, but check it out, you can watch it on Mojo HD (A television channel.....there a full episode on their site.) Or, even look it up on youtube.

Interesting, and just listening to these "experts" shows why there was a subprime crisis in the first place.
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Old Apr 11, 2008, 9:48pm   #14
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I average 1-1.5% a week, for what that's worth. (after 16 months.....I am very conservative, and because of it, havent had a losing week since December of last year.)

And as written above.....there is a show called "wall street warriors" here in the US which shows "some of the greatest and brightest traders", and they are flat out moronic.

I dont know if you Brits get it over there, but check it out, you can watch it on Mojo HD (A television channel.....there a full episode on their site.) Or, even look it up on youtube.

Interesting, and just listening to these "experts" shows why there was a subprime crisis in the first place.
well the traders, per se, didnt make the mistakes -- their bosses did, but that only proves the bosses werent much better than the traders !

But i have to agree with your thoughts concerning "traders" --- certainly proves that you dont have to be smart to trade, just experienced or someones son or daughter !


also explains why so few woman are in the job --- hard for woman to "dumb down" that far !

mp
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Old Apr 12, 2008, 11:57am   #15
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Is there an "applaud" button?

If so, show me, so I can use it for ragstoriches.

Great post.
Thanks Clockwork but all praise should really go to the Trading Psychology - Trading Psychology Management website (no affiliation). When I first stumbled across the site and read the article a lightbulb went off in my head.

As I am currently in this starving artist phase I am finding that for every lightbulb that turns on, there are 2 new lightbulbs that need lighting up. But that is the challenge...

[Thank you all for the rep - I actually have a power of 5 rep points now ]

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Old Jun 29, 2008, 7:50am   #16
 
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Interesting, I have been involved in various business activities for the pat 40 years, some successful some not so. When it has been good it was the information I had in my head at the time that showed me the way to success. Charts, graphs, systems are all very well but by and large they show you historical movements not what started the movements in the first place. It's a bit like fashion. It's no good waiting 'till Primark have knocked off E St Laurent to make you copy and get it onto the market, you must have seen the original on the catwalk the same day as Primark did.

I have not been at this long and so far I doing OK. I invested in RANSQUARK Gold which is a squark service directly from the dealing rooms to your computer by voice in real time. You get a second by second account of breaking news and exactly whts going on in the world, you will see the markets reacting to this immediately - ignoring any chart input you may have set up. Yes, by by all means use the technical info to learn how the markets react to the input info, but I feel if you just trade dots and lines you will not be a success.

Markets are about sentiment, supply and demand, thats all. If you are not aware of what is driving those sentiments then you are stabbing in the dark, some times you will find the bathroom door, sometimes and quite often you will stubb your toe on the bed. I would like to see some comment from seasoned, profitable traders and to know their view.

JB
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