Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

This is a discussion on Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands within the Home Trader forums, part of the Trading Career category; DHB, thanks for your research (and kind publication here without asking for an enormous fee...) . Its in line with ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Apr 13, 2010, 11:29am   #17
Joined Jun 2003
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

DHB, thanks for your research (and kind publication here without asking for an enormous fee...) . Its in line with what I was told from dutch taxation office.

Just for clarification: Are the gains taxed or the capital (substance)? My understanding was, I had to pay 1.2% of my used capital - if I make profits or even if I make losses - just like a property tax.

Kind regards and thanks

Hittfeld
Hittfeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 13, 2010, 12:39pm   #18
DHB
 
DHB's Avatar
Joined Apr 2008
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

DHB started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hittfeld View Post
DHB, thanks for your research (and kind publication here without asking for an enormous fee...) . Its in line with what I was told from dutch taxation office.

Just for clarification: Are the gains taxed or the capital (substance)? My understanding was, I had to pay 1.2% of my used capital - if I make profits or even if I make losses - just like a property tax.

Kind regards and thanks

Hittfeld
Hi Hittfeld,

Bear in mind that the following information is coming from other people who claim to have experience with this matter, but that I haven't verified any of this yet myself with any official authority, but from what I understand, the following applies:

Your taxable assets in box III are calculated as follows:

(net asset value January 1st + net asset value December 31) / 2 * 4% * 30%

Net asset value = assets minus taxfree discount ("heffingsvrij vermogen") - debts not related to box I or box II.

From what I understand, only the asset values on 1/1 and 31/12 are relevant. Any withdrawals (e.g. for your cost of living etc.) in between are irrelevant for the calculation. Also, it appears that since it's all box III, you also don't have to pay any social security premiums ("premies volksverzekeringen"), but it also means you don't have any rights on welfare etc., which is fair imho.

Hope that clarifies things a little?

Personally, I still think it all sounds a little too good to be true, but the court ruling to me seems very convincing that we may have a loophole here...

Anyway, what did you learn from the tax office you said you consulted? Did you go to the belastingdienst directly, or did you consult a fiscal advisor?

B.
DHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 14, 2010, 6:27am   #19
Joined Jun 2003
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

DHB, thanks for the clarification. Actually this is compliant with my experience. I once was a dutch tax subject for a few years. So my information is from both: taxman (Belasti...) and internatonal advisors.

But to make everything stormproof, taxman and advisor gave me the hint, to have a "main occupation" of min 15 hrs p week for insurance purposes. To comply with this, I made arrangements with a firm in neighbouring Germany. They employed me in (a low paid - low insurance - no tax) position ( the firm deducted y cost from tax - I reimbursed the pay and costs to the owner privately). So taxwise in Holland I was treated as employed (but taxed in Germany), with a decent side job (trading) in NL - taxed to the favourable dutch BoxIII rate.

Regards
Hittfeld
Hittfeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 14, 2010, 8:38am   #20
DHB
 
DHB's Avatar
Joined Apr 2008
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

DHB started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hittfeld View Post
DHB, thanks for the clarification. Actually this is compliant with my experience. I once was a dutch tax subject for a few years. So my information is from both: taxman (Belasti...) and internatonal advisors.

But to make everything stormproof, taxman and advisor gave me the hint, to have a "main occupation" of min 15 hrs p week for insurance purposes. To comply with this, I made arrangements with a firm in neighbouring Germany. They employed me in (a low paid - low insurance - no tax) position ( the firm deducted y cost from tax - I reimbursed the pay and costs to the owner privately). So taxwise in Holland I was treated as employed (but taxed in Germany), with a decent side job (trading) in NL - taxed to the favourable dutch BoxIII rate.

Regards
Hittfeld
Oh, if you have an ordinary job (however small) besides your trading, even though the latter is your main source of income, your trading income definitely belongs in box III. But unless you're able to create the type of arrangement you had going on back then, you're still a (part-time) wage slave and not 100% free to do what you want, when you want, which is after all one of the biggest perks of being able to trade for a living.

So basically one more question remains: do you still need that (part-time) job or will the tax man leave you alone even if you don't have one. With the obligatory health insurance nowadays in Holland, I wonder if you still need a job for insurance reasons.

How long has it been since you were a dutch tax subject, Hittfeld? I'm asking, because maybe the health care system in those days differed from how things are today? Did you necessarily have to have a job to be health insured in those days?

Regards,
DHB
DHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2010, 3:35am   #21
 
soldintime's Avatar
Joined Aug 2008
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

DHB,

That is good news. I will read the court case ( I can read dutch) and see what it is about. I do trade for a living and I am profitable since I started trading 3 years ago. I don't know if I would move back to the Netherlands. I have been away for 13 years and I am no longer liable for the Dutch Inheritance TAX, it takes 10 years of being away from Holland to be not liable.

I will be checking Andorra out soon to find out if it is a good place to be in.
soldintime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2010, 1:04pm   #22
DHB
 
DHB's Avatar
Joined Apr 2008
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

DHB started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldintime View Post
DHB,

That is good news. I will read the court case ( I can read dutch) and see what it is about. I do trade for a living and I am profitable since I started trading 3 years ago. I don't know if I would move back to the Netherlands. I have been away for 13 years and I am no longer liable for the Dutch Inheritance TAX, it takes 10 years of being away from Holland to be not liable.

I will be checking Andorra out soon to find out if it is a good place to be in.
To me, it sounds like there's no need for you to move back to Holland, unless you're homesick or something, but that would have to be a case of extremely late onset homesickness, wouldn't it?

There are so many places that are more appealing than the Netherlands to live in. I wouldn't miss the 10 out of 12 months of grey, windy, rainy weather for a second once I would have moved on to greener pastures.

Keep us informed about your findings about Andorra. The combination of sun, mountains and potential fiscal friendliness sounds like a good one!
DHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2010, 1:14pm   #23
 
soldintime's Avatar
Joined Aug 2008
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

It always comes down to the kids. Holland scored the number one position in the UN happy kids index. Where Malta where I am based now ranks at the bottom for European countries.

Malta has got good weather and is also very tax friendly for foreigners. However I find island life a bit difficult. Especially at the weekends when there is no trading. Soon you will have seen it all. So yes it is time to check out some other destinations. I will be checking out Andorra in May. I like the fact of 2 seasons. A warm summer with a cold winter with skiing possibilities. Negatives are the fact that I will need to learn a new language Catalan.

Groetjes

Soldintime
soldintime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2012, 3:26pm   #24
Joined Jul 2006
Re: Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands

Quote:
Originally Posted by soldintime View Post
Malta is brilliant for Traders. They have a non-domicile taxation which is excellent for foreigners moving there. They do not tax overseas income as long as that income is not remitted within the same tax year. So when the new tax year starts Income from previous year can be remitted free of tax to Malta.

Other benefits are low rent, I rent a 4 bedroom 5 bathroom house with 5 car garage and a 13 meter pool for €1000 a month. No council taxes. The only high tax is on buying a car. I have not paid a cent of tax. Childcare is a joke at €1 an hour. Beer is 1.10 and so is capuchino.

Of course you will be stripped of any benefits, pension and health. So you need to sort that out yourself.
Self-tax-Advisors?

Where have you read this law in Malta? this is a PURE illusion of do-it-your-self reading of laws.

Malta residents are taxed always on capital gains, at rate of 35%! (wow the highest in Europe), even if they apply for non domiciled scheme that is really avaible. In each case where a trader produce income as you do doing trading from Malta, you will be taxable. The unique way to be not taxed is that as happen in UK for example (and even here I have raed wrong interpretation of the law) you can have investiments abroad and are managed buy advisors, funds and so on, that do not belong to you and are professionally doing this. So for example an hedge fund could be ok or a managed account. Unfortunately this is not the case of over 99% of traders, self traders, looking to find a nice place where to pay 0% capital gain tax.

In Malta everybody pay capital gan taxes as self trader and for that there are very few traders that are residents elsewhere than Malta.

Be aware!
metapin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading Arcade in Amsterdam, The Netherlands BetterOptions Trading Firms 0 Feb 12, 2009 1:57pm
Trading Facts | Taxes (UK) Magos General Trading Chat 3 Dec 10, 2008 8:41am
Trading Futures & living in Australia? _JWG_ Futures & Options 15 Nov 21, 2008 12:41pm
Taxes on trading EUREX products pal Home Trader 0 Jun 10, 2008 7:31am
Traders in the Netherlands bodemloze_put The Foyer 0 Aug 3, 2005 1:55pm

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)