$25 Million A Day

This is a discussion on $25 Million A Day within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; i don't disagree that it's a cracking performance but when you make markets in illiquidi instruemtns you can charge great ...

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Old May 11, 2010, 10:36am   #16
Joined Feb 2008
Re: $25 Million A Day

i don't disagree that it's a cracking performance but when you make markets in illiquidi instruemtns you can charge great edge. and yes, if they were trading from pin bars or cuckoo clouds i suspect they wouldn't perform so well.

you pay the best you get the best. and despite the fact the world hates you people come to you first for a price.
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:08am   #17
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Re: $25 Million A Day

Wouldn't it be awesome if Fred Goodwin ended up at Goldman, then they'd truly be public enemy no. 1.
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:08am   #18
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Re: $25 Million A Day

As someone once said --- who is the man who has done the most for Barclays?

Answer - Fred Goodwin. He outbid them for Amro. Without him, Barclays would be on life support.
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:09am   #19
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Re: $25 Million A Day

Dunno quite what all the amazement is about...

This is the first time ever that they have had that...

and we are only talking about one quarter and a firm that doesn't put on just a couple of trades / day but instead thousands, meaning you just have way more opportunities to end the day net profitable, and, more specificaly, they are also using an algo to frontrun orders which helps things along nicely...

But as far as their now again sizeable prop trading goes: a Uni buddy of mine, Uli, was one of the first to get hired there way back when they opened their new office in Frankfurts Messe Turm in the early nineties and he traded there there for almost ten years before moving on and, what can one say, all the usual loony conspiracy theorists apart, in their discretionary prop trading they don't do anything else anyone else isn't doing...

one of their best and most profitable currency traders was a gal called Mei Ping Yan who traded off of 5 min charts and went looking for elliot waves (Paul Tudor Jones likes those too btw9) and had a hit rate of below 50%, which she made up for with great risk / reward ratios...

You had everything there from guys and gals just looking at the order book to people trading off of patterns, using bollinger bands, moving averages as trade filters, etc etc.

They understand the obvious, that trading is just a probability game, no more, no less.

Grasp that and you can eventually move on and start a fund to make really big money.

Click the image to open in full size.


"Superfund's origin dates back to 1991, when Christian Halper and Christian Baha developed a software system for the technical analysis of financial data. Within two years, this program became the leading provider of market delivery software in Austria. This success led to the development of the Quadriga Investment Group, created by Christian Baha in 1995. Today, the group has more than 280 employees worldwide. The quadriga Group launched its first alternative investment product for private investors on March 8, 1996 called the Quadriga Beteiligungs - und Vermogens AG". In 2003 the Quadriga funds were globally unified under the umbrella brand name SUPERFUND. Today, the group has more than 1.5 billion dollars under management from more than 55,000 retail and institutional investors."
http://www.superfund.com/
Technical analysis:
Trading without emotions
Sound managed futures funds like Superfund funds are based on proprietary, fully automated technical trading systems. These eliminate poor investment decisions which are often the result of human emotions. A vast range of technical indicators and historical prices are analyzed by the computerized trading systems to automatically generate buy and sell signals.

http://www.superfund.com/HP07/Superf...%20System.aspx
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:52am   #20
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Re: $25 Million A Day

The HFT/flash orders/front-running is risk free. thats the reason they are not losing. There are losing days in prop trading, and in market making, no losing days in HFT. Specialists in the pits get sanctioned for frontrunning orders, but the only difference between them and firms that use HTF is the HFT firms have paid (ie: bribe) to have their computers co-located so the SEC turns a blind eye. If anyone still thinks the stock market is free market capitalism they are woefully misguided. The markets are rigged so certain firms can skim money off of everyone else essentially risk free.

Peter
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:57am   #21
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Re: $25 Million A Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by wackypete2 View Post
The HFT/flash orders/front-running is risk free. thats the reason they are not losing. There are losses in prop trading, there are losses in market making, no losses in HFT.
That's absolutely true.

They had a saying, get real, get big, to drive their prop traders performance that was always accordingly famously volatile, ie no smooth equity curve there lol !


"Goldman Sachs leads hedge fund stragglers

William Hutchings
07 Jan 2008

Goldman Sachs’ flagship Global Alpha fund recorded the biggest loss of almost any hedge fund last year as the industry struggled to match the double-digit returns of 2006.

The Global Alpha fund, which started last year with $10bn (€6.8bn), made an estimated loss of 39%, according to an investor in hedge funds, who has seen its initial results for December."


Continued...


There simply ain't no holy grail, period, only muttons waste their entire trading career chasing after that.

It's just a probability game is all.
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Old May 11, 2010, 12:40pm   #22
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Re: $25 Million A Day

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Originally Posted by timsk View Post
What we all wanna do is to copy the guys 'n gels at GS who didn't have a single losing day in the first quarter of the year according to this article on Bloomberg.
Goldman Sachs Has First Quarter With No Trading Loss
Well, I guess they'll be needing every cent to help pay their legal expenses!


It's not that suprising, the money and technology that GS traders will have behind them can afford them the luxury of being able to iron out most moves under normal conditions.
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Old May 11, 2010, 1:34pm   #23
 
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Re: $25 Million A Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSD View Post
Dunno quite what all the amazement is about...

one of their best and most profitable currency traders was a gal called Mei Ping Yan who traded off of 5 min charts and went looking for elliot waves (Paul Tudor Jones likes those too btw9) and had a hit rate of below 50%, which she made up for with great risk / reward ratios...

You had everything there from guys and gals just looking at the order book to people trading off of patterns, using bollinger bands, moving averages as trade filters, etc etc.

They understand the obvious, that trading is just a probability game, no more, no less.
Spot on as always BSD.
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Old May 11, 2010, 1:36pm   #24
 
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Re: $25 Million A Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSD View Post
Grasp that and you can eventually move on and start a fund to make really big money.
That's if you're playing the "who has the most money in their account when they die" game. Otherwise you don't need that kind of money, unless you have a spouse with an insatiable appetite for consumer goods from Harrods.
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Old May 11, 2010, 2:06pm   #25
 
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superfund? 5$ up and 5$ down month by month, ROFL!

this guy is a loser
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Old May 11, 2010, 4:39pm   #26
 
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Re: $25 Million A Day

English please?
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Old May 17, 2010, 10:27pm   #27
 
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Re: $25 Million A Day

Forget Govt Slacks - Tradebot have not had a losing trading day in 4 years ... average length of trade ~ 11 seconds.
here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/business/17trade.html

Last edited by elitejets; May 18, 2010 at 3:13am.
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Old May 17, 2010, 11:57pm   #28
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Re: $25 Million A Day

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Originally Posted by elitejets View Post
Forget Govt Slacks - Tradebot have not had a losing trading day in 4 years ... average length of trade - 11 seconds.here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/business/17trade.html
Minus eleven seconds? That's cheating...
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Old May 18, 2010, 12:20am   #29
 
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Re: $25 Million A Day

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Originally Posted by elitejets View Post
Forget Govt Slacks - Tradebot have not had a losing trading day in 4 years ... average length of trade - 11 seconds.
here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/business/17trade.html
and i wish i had a 12 inch ****

only 2 inches shy!
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Old May 18, 2010, 12:51am   #30
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Re: $25 Million A Day

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and i wish i had a 12 inch ****

only 2 inches shy!
My wife wanted me to hit her hard and give her 12 inches...so I slapped her over the head with a brick and f****d her twice.

Peter
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