Why do they do it?

This is a discussion on Why do they do it? within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by DionysusToast Of course 'buyer beware' and all that - but why people that run T2W give these ...

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Old Feb 6, 2011, 10:40am   #331
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by DionysusToast View Post
Of course 'buyer beware' and all that - but why people that run T2W give these scammers air time is beyond me.
I can understand sharky's motivation, and at a push, even the staff dependant on the evil empire for there living.

I simply cant understand the motivation of unpaid moderators.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 10:49am   #332
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Re: Why do they do it?

But wait a minute, is everyone who claims trading success a scammer? Is the logic that anyone who is good necessarily won't want to teach or to share? I realise that most probably are bogus, but it's impossible there aren't one or two genuine guys out there.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 11:21am   #333
 
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Re: Why do they do it?

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But wait a minute, is everyone who claims trading success a scammer?
No dude. Everyone that DionysusToast doesn't like is a scammer :-)
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 11:52am   #334
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by meanreversion View Post
But wait a minute, is everyone who claims trading success a scammer? Is the logic that anyone who is good necessarily won't want to teach or to share? I realise that most probably are bogus, but it's impossible there aren't one or two genuine guys out there.
I guess another way to look at it is why would anyone who trades very successfully want to teach one individual how to take money off another? It's kinda pointless in a zero sum game. What could one gain from such an endeavour?

I can only see two reasons. First is if it is for money...but teaching is likely to detract from one's income as a trader, most likely. Certainly having to teach or even guide others in and out of positions would be & has been a distraction for me in the past. So I would conclude that for this reason to be valid, they would need to derive more income from teaching than they would lose due to the distraction of teaching. This hurdle is easier to jump over if you aren't very good at trading. For those at the top end, the financial benefits of teaching would not outweigh the costs.

Another potential reason would be if they are not sufficiently capitilised to make a sufficient income from trading. But if this is the case, they're hardly going to be setting up a trading education company either. Easier to work a job while trading part time.

The only other reason I see is if there is some other connection with the teacher and the student. This could be some personal relationship (eg family, friend etc), or it may be that they belong to an organisation to which they both contribute funds eg. church

So I would conclude and agree that there should be some genuine guys or gals out there, but that they are few and far between.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 12:03pm   #335
 
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by the hare View Post

................I simply cant understand the motivation of unpaid moderators..........
I wonder myself sometimes Just want to keep things clean(ish) so members can talk about trading and it's pretty disheartening that so many "real" traders seem more interested in lulz talk than trading talk apart from the odd spurt from them here and there.

jon
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 12:16pm   #336
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Re: Why do they do it?

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I wonder myself sometimes Just want to keep things clean(ish) so members can talk about trading and it's pretty disheartening that so many "real" traders seem more interested in lulz talk than trading talk apart from the odd spurt from them here and there.

jon
It was T2W's management who decided to dumb down the site and promote lulz so you can hardly complain. Thats the inevitable consequences of aiming for quantity over quality.

You know as well as I do if T2W where a lulz free zone, sharky wouldnt have a business, a bunch of guys would be out of a job, and you'd be moderating one post a month.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 12:17pm   #337
 
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by barjon View Post
I wonder myself sometimes Just want to keep things clean(ish) so members can talk about trading and it's pretty disheartening that so many "real" traders seem more interested in lulz talk than trading talk apart from the odd spurt from them here and there.

jon
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 1:16pm   #338
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by BlackBison View Post
The variance in poker at the highest levels is much, much higher than in trading. At the low end where the games are easier and can be beaten with a more mechanical style the variance is lower. My largest drawdown when I played professionally was about 30%.

Playing online you can do alot of volume, however, which can smooth the equity curve somewhat. Nevertheless, my equity curve over 3 years and about 5 million hands included a patch lasting over 3 months where I essentially broke even.

This was even though I was crushing the games in terms of expectancies and playing 4-8 tables at once, for 80+ hours per week. With equity swings of £10k+ a day as you can imagine it was pretty tough to stick with the 'system'

No professional poker player should drop 60% of their bankroll if they are using correct 'position sizing'. The only reason I take greater risk in trading is because the variance is lower and the edge is higher, so its worth the stretch imo..
Perhaps if you play NL though the swings are supposed to be higher.
Common knowledge is for about 20 buy ins.
For SNGs you need about 50 and for limit you need about 200-300 big blinds. It's not uncommon for people to drop most of that bankroll at some stage even when playing well.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 1:49pm   #339
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by DashRiprock View Post
but here theres people that only can speak about trading from what they learned from a book!
I've never read a trading book before. Has anyone read a book about swing trading? I don't know what to expect from a book about trading.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 1:50pm   #340
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Re: Why do they do it?

Is T2W a highly lucrative website for its owners?
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 2:10pm   #341
 
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post
Perhaps if you play NL though the swings are supposed to be higher.
Common knowledge is for about 20 buy ins.
For SNGs you need about 50 and for limit you need about 200-300 big blinds. It's not uncommon for people to drop most of that bankroll at some stage even when playing well.
What are you talking about? The fact you called it "big blinds" leads me to think you don't know.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 2:14pm   #342
 
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post
Perhaps if you play NL though the swings are supposed to be higher.
Common knowledge is for about 20 buy ins.
For SNGs you need about 50 and for limit you need about 200-300 big blinds. It's not uncommon for people to drop most of that bankroll at some stage even when playing well.
20 buy in rule is just a rule of thumb. Like trading you should cut back your size (ie. play lower stakes games) if you have an extended losing streak and want to preserve your capital at all costs.

Many poker players, even some of the greats, do not care about capital preservation at all- so that may be the reason you get alot of 'blow ups'. Almost every online pro at the top end started with a tiny deposit and then ran it up and most of them are very young too, obviously a bad combination for risk aversion

One of my closest online poker friends who built his bankroll alongside me those years, lost his entire $150k account in one day playing 50/100 NL heads-up against another HU vet. That's 15 buy ins, but he didn't stop until he was broke. When he was -50k or even -100k he could have left the game and dropped stakes and rebuilt his cashier. But because poker is more personal than trading its sometimes harder to avoid ego problems like this.

He then quit poker and got a normal job- he had spent everything he'd cashed out over the years so he didn't have any more capital. Don't feel too sorry for him though he lived the high life for a few years..
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 2:15pm   #343
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by Masquerade View Post
What are you talking about? The fact you called it "big blinds" leads me to think you don't know.
big bets then, aren't I allowed a typo?
I'm talking about the recommended bankroll for certain types of holdem and how much of a downswing you could have.
Bison says no one should go more than a 30% downswing but there's plenty of evidence of good players with bigger downswings than that.
...very confrontational this morning?
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 2:17pm   #344
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Re: Why do they do it?

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Originally Posted by brettus View Post
I've never read a trading book before. Has anyone read a book about swing trading? I don't know what to expect from a book about trading.
some of the books even have so called working strategies that when backtested do not work. Perhaps there's 1 good book in 10 also
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 2:21pm   #345
 
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Re: Why do they do it?

San my point wasn't that you can't have big drawdowns in poker. It just sounded to me like you were concluding that you HAD to have 60% drawdowns if you wanted to play poker professionally, like it was some built in feature. I was just saying that wasn't true. Sorry if that's not what you meant.

Just like trading its all about bet sizing and how much you are willing to risk
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