Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

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Old Aug 9, 2010, 4:51pm   #11
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

Hi sopodo,
You have to haggle with the brokers to get the commission rate you want. That said, I'd be very surprised and extremely impressed if you can start from scratch with a new broker and agree a rate of $3.20 or less per R/T (inc. exchange fees and NFA fees). I suppose you might be able to do this if you're depositing six figure sums or more and can demonstrate a trade history showing that you're a heavy trader.

As for CME membership, that's not broker dependant. Once you have that, all futures brokers will waive the bulk of the exchange fees. CME membership costs a one-off fee of USD$2,000, plus a variable monthly fee of around $130.00 for each instrument traded. On top of that, I think you'll need to do a daily trade minimum which is tallied up on a monthly basis and equates to about 25 R/Ts each day for the ES. If you don't make the minimum, they kick your @rse out without any refunds!
Tim.
(NB: I'm not a CME member myself and I haven't got the figures mentioned directly from them, so they can't be relied upon for accuracy!)
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 5:02pm   #12
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

sopodo started this thread
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Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Hi sopodo,
You have to haggle with the brokers to get the commission rate you want. That said, I'd be very surprised and extremely impressed if you can start from scratch with a new broker and agree a rate of $3.20 or less per R/T (inc. exchange fees and NFA fees). I suppose you might be able to do this if you're depositing six figure sums or more and can demonstrate a trade history showing that you're a heavy trader.

As for CME membership, that's not broker dependant. Once you have that, all futures brokers will waive the bulk of the exchange fees. CME membership costs a one-off fee of USD$2,000, plus a variable monthly fee of around $130.00 for each instrument traded. On top of that, I think you'll need to do a daily trade minimum which is tallied up on a monthly basis and equates to about 25 R/Ts each day for the ES. If you don't make the minimum, they kick your @rse out without any refunds!
Tim.
(NB: I'm not a CME member myself and I haven't got the figures mentioned directly from them, so they can't be relied upon for accuracy!)
Many thanks for your excellent information,

Please tell me what do you think about $3.50 per round turn including all exchange and clearing fees? Do you think to get that from starting on scratch would be pretty amazing?

Lastly, is NFA fees the same as clearing fees?

Many thanks in advance
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 5:39pm   #13
 
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

Fairvalue futures quoted me this. Hope they dont mind me posting this up:

Thank you for your enquiry with Fairvalue, Retail Commissions vary depending on the front end you choose to trade with , We have two free platforms that we offer (a) Ninjatrader with Zenfire with charts (advanced functionality i.e automated
trading is an add on of $60 per month) and RCG Onyx for is also provided free.

Commissions are as follows : ninjatrader +Zenfire : $2.40 per round trip + exchange fees (no additional transaction charge)

RCG Onyx : $1.54 per round trip + exchange fees

We beleive we are the only European based broker that currently is offering ninjatrader with the proper Zenfire feed ,which it was
developed for and the cheapest commission wise we are also only one of 3 brokers including the US to provide it, these rates are based on a retail account with no volume minimum required, please note that we are negotiable on higher volume accounts.

Additonally we can offer monthly subscription platforms such as TT X-Trader and Promark/J-Trader Pats and CQG trader

X-Trader or Promark : $1.16 per round trip + exchange fees
CQG Trader : $1.40 per round trip + exchange fees.

Regarding Financial protection when opening an account with fairvalue, you are fully protected by NFA and CFTC regulation
and any personal trading funds of Fairvalue proprietary are seperate to all retail accounts, we are introducing brokers to
Rosenthal Collins group with whom your funds are deposited and with whom you will open your account directly with,
they are a very large futures Commission merchant and clearer who are fully regulated and have an 83 year track record in the industry.
In the event of Fairvalue failing as a company, it would have no bearing on your retail account I can confirm this in writing from
our clearing partners Rosenthal Collins group if you would require.
If you would like any further information or have any other questions please dont hesitate in asking
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 5:47pm   #14
 
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

What kind of volume are you doing?
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 6:22pm   #15
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sopodo View Post
Please tell me what do you think about $3.50 per round turn including all exchange and clearing fees? Do you think to get that from starting on scratch would be pretty amazing?
Lastly, is NFA fees the same as clearing fees?
Hi sopodo,
IMO, you'd be unwise to focus on commissions exclusively without weighing up the other pros and cons of the brokers you're considering. For example, my broker (Infinity Futures) provides a really good trading platform with a free data feed. (I realise there will be folks that disagree with this and think the platform is pants - so I accept this is subjective.) Also, I can Sim' trade indefinitely - there no time restriction and I'm not bound to a monthly trade minimum. As I've already mentioned, the customer service is first class. Probably, I could have shaved another $0.10 to $0.20 cents of the RT comm's by going elsewhere, but I wouldn't have got these benefits, all of which I value. So it really is horses for courses. That said, viewed in isolation, $3.50 per RT (inc. all fees) is a very good deal.

Re. NFA = National Futures Association - and their fees are insignificant when compared to the exchange fees. My understanding is that the clearing fees (e.g. Rosenthal Collins Group) are included as part of the exchange fees. Perhaps someone else can confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong?
TIm.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 8:29pm   #16
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

sopodo started this thread gedward3 and timsk, thanks very much for your excellent replies

I will now look into finding a load of brokers around the $3.50 mark, and see where I get. If they can offer all or some of the things I'm after then great.

Thanks for telling me what NFA stands for. Much appreciated!

If anyone can confirm if NFA fees are part of exchange fees that would be great?

Thanks again for everyone's help in this thread
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 9:22pm   #17
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

sopodo started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopodo View Post
gedward3 and timsk, thanks very much for your excellent replies

I will now look into finding a load of brokers around the $3.50 mark, and see where I get. If they can offer all or some of the things I'm after then great.

Thanks for telling me what NFA stands for. Much appreciated!

If anyone can confirm if NFA fees are part of exchange fees that would be great?

Thanks again for everyone's help in this thread
oops, I just completely over looked something. I was browsing a broker called global futures and I hadn't noticed this before. There commissions are based on per side, per contract. Is that normal. Does this mean all the quotes you have given me, these round turn trades are per contract? Is that normal?
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 12:21am   #18
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sopodo View Post
oops, I just completely over looked something. I was browsing a broker called global futures and I hadn't noticed this before. There commissions are based on per side, per contract. Is that normal. Does this mean all the quotes you have given me, these round turn trades are per contract? Is that normal?
Hi sopodo,
All brokers (that I've looked at anyway) base their commissions on one contract. The two main variables are:
A) does the price include all other fees, and /or
B) is it per side or a Round Turn.
If they quote $3.50 R/T, that will be for one contract only, i.e. $7.00 for two contacts, $10.50 for three contacts etc., etc. When you think you've found someone much cheaper than anyone else, it's usually because they're only pricing one side or they've not included the fees and, if it's really really cheap, they've done both.
It soon mounts up!
Tim.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 3:15am   #19
 
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sopodo View Post
oops, I just completely over looked something. I was browsing a broker called global futures and I hadn't noticed this before. There commissions are based on per side, per contract. Is that normal. Does this mean all the quotes you have given me, these round turn trades are per contract? Is that normal?
Here the company fairvalue i was talking ab out.

http://www.fairvaluefutures.com/

You can trade from their offices also for 300 quid a month but i suppose you
wont get all the information. You would however be in a room with a load
of professionals and learning a hell of a lot from them.

Ged
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 5:38am   #20
 
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Re: Do you think these commission rates inside are acceptable?

It's not just about commissions, although what you should pay is in the 4 dollar per round trip range. I would rather pay a bit more but get a solid and reliable platform. Getting properly filled is more important to me than 50 cents. There are a few problems with the smaller futures brokers, and one of them is something that most people don't realize. Read the fine print and you'll find that they're not obligated to send each and every order to the exchange. Yes, many actually act as bucket shops and seek to drain accounts. Just try to confront them on this issue, and see the run around you'll get.
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