Best Prime Minister of modern times?

This is a discussion on Best Prime Minister of modern times? within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Originally Posted by tomorton Fantastic summary David. I just hadn't got round to it but think it wouldn't have been ...

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Old Oct 6, 2017, 8:37pm   #41
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Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
Fantastic summary David. I just hadn't got round to it but think it wouldn't have been much different. Maybe not so much fun to read.

I would have given some plus marks for Thatcher and Churchill but can't think of any outstanding achievements by the others.
The American list would be good...
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Old Oct 7, 2017, 1:39pm   #43
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Originally Posted by Jason101 View Post
Fortescue worked as a whip in Edward Heath’s Tory government between 1970 and 1973



“For anyone with any sense, who was in trouble, would come to the whips and tell them the truth, and say now, I’m in a jam, can you help? It might be debt, it might be… a scandal involving small boys, or any kind of scandal in which, erm er, a member seemed likely to be mixed up in, they’d come and ask if we could help and if we could, we did. And we would do everything we can because we would store up brownie points… and if I mean, that sounds a pretty, pretty nasty reason, but it’s one of the reasons because if we could get a chap out of trouble then, he will do as we ask forever more. ”

Can you count how many laws were broken there?
What completely befuddles me is that he seems to be more embarrassed about blackmailing than pedophilia.
Thanks I have seen that before.

I really think that to see the world as it really is one needs to stop measuring these people in terms of what we would/could do.


The key, I think, is to see the repeating pattern. A trading forum is a good place to discuss such things. We have a collection of people who are open to seeing patterns. Though it is a human trait in general.

What is the repeating pattern regarding pedophilia in the political establishment?

Denial
Cover Up
Attacks on the accuser/messenger
Intimidation
Enquiries that go nowhere, controlled by the establishment itself.
Mis direction- Look we're doing something- see how many/how fast minor celebs were sent to prison.

What's missing? Apart from a bunch words, no real outrage. No action- None. Tells you a lot.

Where's the 'war' on pedophilia? There's a war on everything else- including free speech and privacy. I think we can see where the priorities of the establishment lie.

Let's just keep in mind the biggest smoking gun and proof how big this really is:

Jimmy Saville.

If that story isn't enough proof, there's really nothing to talk about.

Last edited by David Knight; Oct 7, 2017 at 1:53pm. Reason: spelling
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Old Oct 7, 2017, 2:13pm   #44
 
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Originally Posted by David Knight View Post
Thanks I have seen that before.

I really think that to see the world as it really is one needs to stop measuring these people in terms of what we would/could do.


The key, I think, is to see the repeating pattern. A trading forum is a good place to discuss such things. We have a collection of people who are open to seeing patterns. Though it is a human trait in general.

What is the repeating pattern regarding pedophilia in the political establishment?

Denial
Cover Up
Attacks on the accuser/messenger
Intimidation
Enquiries that go nowhere, controlled by the establishment itself.
Mis direction- Look we're doing something- see how many/how fast minor celebs were sent to prison.

What's missing? Apart from a bunch words, no real outrage. No action- None. Tells you a lot.

Where's the 'war' on pedophilia? There's a war on everything else- including free speech and privacy. I think we can see where the priorities of the establishment lie.

Let's just keep in mind the biggest smoking gun and proof how big this really is:

Jimmy Saville.

If that story isn't enough proof, there's really nothing to talk about.
Paedophilia is unfortunately just like many other "problems" that are inherent in human society. If the problem is big enough and difficult enough then "authority" is always reluctant/slow/incompetent at dealing with it – and that's just another facet of human nature where we all like to deal with the easy problems and leave the difficult ones on one side. Isn't that why we find it difficult to get rid of a failed trade, spend a lot of our energy on the entry – which is "fun" and the reckoning doesn't come until later (just like using your credit card?).

Isn't that why great politicians are as rare as great people: they are the ones that see what needs to be done and make it their business to do it. In the current context I see Prime Minister May as someone who likes being PM but doesn't have much clue as to what needs doing and even less as to how to do it. Contrast this with Thatcher: whether or not you agree her politics, she at least knew what she wanted to do and how to go about it and I suspect her motivation in being PM was not the glories of office but the attraction of a post where she could achieve objectives.

But going back to paedophilia – as in most things, what gets reported and what we get to know about is usually only the tip of the iceberg and there are countless vested interests in having it stay that way. That may sound a bit like conspiracy theory but it's only when these things get exposed you realise how awful it is – just look at the nonsense that was going on in Rotherham and is probably going on elsewhere. Do remember that the frontline of enforcing the law is with the police force who today, just like Lestrade in Sherlock's time are not always the brightest of the bright and they themselves cling on in opposition to having a proper "officer class" like they do in the Armed Forces, which is one of the few places where I have seen efficient management backed up by expertise.

Too often, the enforcement authorities are leaned on by those in political control – but hey that's been going on for centuries hasn't it?
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 5:57am   #45
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Originally Posted by sminicooper View Post
Paedophilia is unfortunately just like many other "problems" that are inherent in human society. If the problem is big enough and difficult enough then "authority" is always reluctant/slow/incompetent at dealing with it – and that's just another facet of human nature where we all like to deal with the easy problems and leave the difficult ones on one side. Isn't that why we find it difficult to get rid of a failed trade, spend a lot of our energy on the entry – which is "fun" and the reckoning doesn't come until later (just like using your credit card?).

Isn't that why great politicians are as rare as great people: they are the ones that see what needs to be done and make it their business to do it. In the current context I see Prime Minister May as someone who likes being PM but doesn't have much clue as to what needs doing and even less as to how to do it. Contrast this with Thatcher: whether or not you agree her politics, she at least knew what she wanted to do and how to go about it and I suspect her motivation in being PM was not the glories of office but the attraction of a post where she could achieve objectives.

But going back to paedophilia – as in most things, what gets reported and what we get to know about is usually only the tip of the iceberg and there are countless vested interests in having it stay that way. That may sound a bit like conspiracy theory but it's only when these things get exposed you realise how awful it is – just look at the nonsense that was going on in Rotherham and is probably going on elsewhere. Do remember that the frontline of enforcing the law is with the police force who today, just like Lestrade in Sherlock's time are not always the brightest of the bright and they themselves cling on in opposition to having a proper "officer class" like they do in the Armed Forces, which is one of the few places where I have seen efficient management backed up by expertise.

Too often, the enforcement authorities are leaned on by those in political control – but hey that's been going on for centuries hasn't it?
Principled people in short supply. Which is rather unfortunate given that the whole world seems to be moving ever faster towards moral bankruptcy.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 8:02am   #46
 
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Not having been PM I am only guessing but
1. There are powerful pressure groups that get their own way on the PM. The general public has no idea that they even exist.
2. It must be tricky to see the tree needed in the wood. Lots of people giving advice and mostly feathering their own nests.
3. A servile civil service bureaucracy that panders to the PM's wishes in order to keep onside.
4. Being at the top is a very lonely place. The PM is expected to have the best ideas but they are only human. It is often easier to see the problem clearer from afar.
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