Free Jimmy Carr

This is a discussion on Free Jimmy Carr within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; As I don't believe that politicians are on the whole particularly intelligent, I reckon they're lobbied for wording etc....

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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:22pm   #25
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

As I don't believe that politicians are on the whole particularly intelligent, I reckon they're lobbied for wording etc.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:25pm   #26
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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Also if everyone paid similar amount of tax to carr they wld have considerably more money to spend, invest etc, which I guess wld be good for the economy
It is highly unlikely that you would have any infrastructure supported on a 1% tax rate and it has not worked in Greece where tax is heavily evaded.

I am all for low taxation which is why I would look to the Hong Kong model as it has been hugely successful in my view.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:29pm   #27
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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It is highly unlikely that you would have any infrastructure supported on a 1% tax rate and it has not worked in Greece where tax is heavily evaded.

I am all for low taxation which is why I would look to the Hong Kong model as it has been hugely successful in my view.
Small Government and Low Taxation.
It's the only way forward.

I just wish the masses would wake up.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:29pm   #28
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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Yes, nicely dug up

The problem - not just relating to tax - is that Parliament (Government) create the law by virtue of an Act, but the Judiciary interpret it. That interpretation can often fly in the face of Parliament's intentions in passing the Act, particularly when it has been poorly drafted.

Whilst I applaud the fact that the Judiciary is independent I have always thought that they should pay more regard to the intentions of Parliament in their interpretations - as in Ramsay.
I should perhaps add that the problem HMRC face is that they can only challenge on the basis of the wording of the law and not Parliament's intentions behind it.

Scose - aye, but it's the Parliamentary draftsmen that carry the can
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:45pm   #29
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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Originally Posted by counter_violent View Post
Small Government and Low Taxation.
It's the only way forward.

I just wish the masses would wake up.
+1
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:47pm   #30
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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@ Leopard

It's legal because of what they do with they money. They don't repatriate any more as they use some sketchy loan thing where he'll owe the trust
Don't get me wrong, I understand the distinction, but it should still fall foul of the rules as they currently stand. They are specifically designed to catch things like this without making any individual step illegal.

If this goes to court and HMRC lose (loose), they'll most likely just change the rules to cover situations such as these.

However, in this case if it did go to court I would imagine that HMRC would win.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:59pm   #31
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

They have clamped down on it but they cannot shut down retrospectively so people who set up before the court decision can carry on as long as they like

It's a nonsensical system worthy of much lulz
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 1:08pm   #32
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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I should perhaps add that the problem HMRC face is that they can only challenge on the basis of the wording of the law and not Parliament's intentions behind it.
Actually, it's not just based on law as in purely the clauses in the relevant legislation.

There is also a vast body of case law to be considered. I think that this was the point in MacNiven - the law was reinterpreted by the judges in that case, but from then on that has established the new practice.

I'm in favour of lower taxes, smaller government - and not just for economic reasons either. But the issue here is not that, rather it is whether what has been done is allowed. Note the key is allowed, not legal. Case law clearly establishes that what is legal is not necessarily allowed for tax purposes.

I think the principle has clearly been breached in this case, and like I say I expect HMRC will either successfully challenge or if not get legislation amended to allow them to act in such cases. It should be very easy to write legislation that distinguishes between legitimate loans and those made purely as part of a tax avoidance scheme.
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