Free Jimmy Carr

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Old Jun 21, 2012, 1:59pm   #31
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

They have clamped down on it but they cannot shut down retrospectively so people who set up before the court decision can carry on as long as they like

It's a nonsensical system worthy of much lulz
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:08pm   #32
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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I should perhaps add that the problem HMRC face is that they can only challenge on the basis of the wording of the law and not Parliament's intentions behind it.
Actually, it's not just based on law as in purely the clauses in the relevant legislation.

There is also a vast body of case law to be considered. I think that this was the point in MacNiven - the law was reinterpreted by the judges in that case, but from then on that has established the new practice.

I'm in favour of lower taxes, smaller government - and not just for economic reasons either. But the issue here is not that, rather it is whether what has been done is allowed. Note the key is allowed, not legal. Case law clearly establishes that what is legal is not necessarily allowed for tax purposes.

I think the principle has clearly been breached in this case, and like I say I expect HMRC will either successfully challenge or if not get legislation amended to allow them to act in such cases. It should be very easy to write legislation that distinguishes between legitimate loans and those made purely as part of a tax avoidance scheme.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:15pm   #33
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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Originally Posted by scose-no-doubt View Post
They have clamped down on it but they cannot shut down retrospectively so people who set up before the court decision can carry on as long as they like
I don't think this is actually the case. If a scheme was legal, but is no longer deemed to be so, they might not be able to impose penalties or claim unpaid taxes, but as far as I'm aware they can prevent it operating in the future. Certainly, plenty of such schemes have been shut down - if you're already in one, that's just tough.

To give an example, the taxation of ISAs was changed with regard to dividends (same with pension funds).

So in Jimmy Carr's case, he might be OK up till now, but have to change his future arrangements.

As for retrospective, I'm not sure this is true either, certainly in the matter of trusts. There was a change in recent years to the way that certain types of trust are taxed, and this applies now to all such trusts, even those that were established before the change.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:22pm   #34
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

Trust me mate. I speak from personal experience here involving HMRC challenging one of these schemes which processes hundreds of millions per year.

If it's any consolation I'm still as shocked as you are. The guys that are running the one I know are earning more than Jimmy Carr for administering it. It's big business.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:24pm   #35
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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Trust me mate. I speak from personal experience here involving HMRC challenging one of these schemes which processes hundreds of millions per year.

If it's any consolation I'm still as shocked as you are. The guys that are running the one I know are earning more than Jimmy Carr for administering it. It's big business.
Maybe we're talking at cross purposes here? Are you saying that HMRC can't shut down such things, or that existing users can continue to use them regardless of changes in legislation?
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:25pm   #36
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

The latter
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:26pm   #37
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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If it's any consolation I'm still as shocked as you are.
LOL I'm neither shocked nor concerned. It's just interesting having a more adult discussion on this site for a change.

Pity it's only about tax law.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:28pm   #38
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

Quote:
Originally Posted by scose-no-doubt View Post
Trust me mate. I speak from personal experience here involving HMRC challenging one of these schemes which processes hundreds of millions per year.

If it's any consolation I'm still as shocked as you are. The guys that are running the one I know are earning more than Jimmy Carr for administering it. It's big business.
Making sense now

You want this kind of stuff to continue so you can get a break and join the elite administrators.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:34pm   #39
 
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

My attitude will never allow me to become that successful in any endeavour as I lack the ability to ignore incompetence and I'm missing the genetic make-up that allows sychophantc behaviour. It's a real problem. Also, I hate everyone almost as much as I hate tax. That being said, I wouldn't turn down an offer
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 2:37pm   #40
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Re: Free Jimmy Carr

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My attitude will never allow me to become that successful in any endeavour as I lack the ability to ignore incompetence and I'm missing the genetic make-up that allows sychophantc behaviour. It's a real problem. Also, I hate everyone almost as much as I hate tax. That being said, I wouldn't turn down an offer
Misanthropy is nothing to be ashamed of. Other people are awful, after all.
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