Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

This is a discussion on Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX within the Forex Net Trap forums, part of the Specialists' Corner category; I found a very interesting product on TulipFX that essentially puts the order book 'ladder' onto your MT4 charts so ...

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Old Aug 24, 2011, 10:39am   #1
 
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Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

I found a very interesting product on TulipFX that essentially puts the order book 'ladder' onto your MT4 charts so I thought I'd start a review thread...

Essentially it is an indicator to show you exactly where "Limit" orders are before even your broker knows!

Once you see this and see how trading these low timeframes without it (especially on MT4 brokers) will be putting you at a massive disadvantage then I'm sure it'll be worth trying.

Personally I don't have the time to scalp due to day-time work commitments but if I did then I would definitely want to follow this. I can't see how us private trades could compete any other way. It's an 'if I knew then what I know now' moment when you see behind the curtain!

I have no affiliation with this but having watched a 6 hour webinar yesterday of it being explained and traded live I thought I'd pass back as much info on it as I can for anyone else here interested.

I may try it one day if I get time but would be very interested to see what others here that day-trade do think of it. It might sounds too good to be true but it doesn't look like easy work or something for beginners, and having seen the webinar I have no doubt you'll be impressed - it is a real eye opener.

If you do try it, please post feedback here too for others to also benefit from.

It works on any FX pair and only on the M1 timeframe. There doesn't seem to be much from the method that you can apply to higher timeframe trading so this is definitely for short-term pip grabbers only.

You run the 'ladder' OrderBook software in Windows and two indicators on MT4 (He used a FXDD demo account).

He traded on live Dukascopy (with his own £5m account) and went into a lot of detail why - and why you are highly unlikely to profit for very long on any MT4 broker when scalping because they will close your account.

He spend an hour or so going over brokers to use and avoid and explained how there is no such thing as a true ECN MT4 broker and how with MT4 there are too many ways for the broker to manipulate things on the higher timeframes for you to profit longterm. It seemed like genuine industry inside and he was very knowledgable with my techy questions so I have no doubt he knows his stuff.

It seems that you can trade the strategy at all times of day/night but the London Session seems to be the best.

The trading room that he offers isn't cheap but from what I saw I have no doubt he will make you profitable in one month. What you're paying for really is mentorship and from what I saw and my technical understanding this guy really knows the business down to a microscopic level. If you ever wondered what all these 'scalpers' were up to with the 'ladder' and how they do it - this is how to find out without having to work for a prop firm or pay for expensive subscriptions to Reuters/ESP/Bloomberg etc.

The trading room trades for 4 hours a day on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays.

In that time he seems to get about 10 trades a day, all on EURUSD. You can trade on any pair but trading more than one would be quite intense, certainly only good if you already have every weapon on Call of Duty and are very quick witted.

Winners 85% - from what I saw that translated into 100% winning days.

R:R 1:1 ish per trade but it's all dynamic so difficult to follow that, he doesn't use stops or profit targets, all entries and exits are manual.

Risk 0.1 - 0.5% per trade but you could easily trade more if you have a smaller account.

Average profits 2 to 10 pips, so probably about 50 pips a day on average.

At his risk level you'd you'd be looking at an average 3.6% gains per week but that was on a massive account trading 50 to 150 lots per trade, I can see why he doesn't need to go higher, he made $90,000 on the client account he was trading while we watched but I think that was just showing off, at a guess on average I'd guess he makes on average half of that each day. You hear stories about how this happens - seeing it for yourself is quite fascinating.

People following him seem to risk 0.5% to 2% per trade on smaller accounts and seem to be making about 3-6% returns per day. Those on his risk level should get 3% per week safely.

Account size...

Based on the above a £1,000 account would average you £30-60/day for 4 hours work - you'd need to ask yourself if that is a good return on your time because it is currently only possible to do this manually - you'd make more washing dishes.

Based on a £10,000 account you could earn a reasonable living doing this working 20 hours a week but you have to be a person that is happy to watch the screen intensely for all that time. I could see myself getting bored once the initial thrill wore off and it became 'work'. Imagine doing that day in day out for months and years on end. You'd need much more interesting hobbies!

Drawdowns - by the looks of it maybe 1-2% max on a trade but I doubt from what I saw he'd not let any day finish as a drawdown day, it looks like he's been doing this for decades and it seems to be the only way to do it. This is trading the ladder for retail traders but you'd be doing exactly the same as the prop traders, but from home.

Could you get the same performance? Probably, it is not a complicated strategy, just one that requires concentration due to it being the M1 timeframe. I think 4 hours would be more than enough screentime per day to be satisfied. In between trades the banter and chat seems good to keep you from getting bored/lonely, which I think would be an issue over time. There's more to life than just money!

Their websites:

http://www.orderbookfx.com/howitworks.html

http://rockshorelive.com/

More information on TulipFX and ForexFactory, all worth reading..

http://tulipfx.com/fxforum/showthrea...the-other-side

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=284572

Weekly free webinars here to check it out for yourself:

https://rockshore.omnovia.com/registration

Let me know any feedback, I'd be interested to see how many people want to trade the lower timeframes on MT4 without this once they speak to the guy and see the tools in action...
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Last edited by surferking; Aug 24, 2011 at 5:41pm.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 1:15pm   #2
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

Cheers for this Marcus, just need to book a day off work to watch the webinar now.

From a practical point of view it would be hard to devote 4 hours a day to something like this, Im sure most of us are in the same boat... work gets in the way, so until we've all hit the big time things like this are going to be hard to take advantage of.
I still curious to know more about it though, Im particularly concerned about the comments regarding MT4 brokers not allowing scalpers to become profitable and the manipulation of the higher timeframes also make it impossible to make money long term. What are we saying here? That non of us are going make money to the level we all aspire unless we sign up to his methods? Whats your feeling after watching the webinar, is that just sales talk to get people signed up or is it genuine and someting we all need to consider in our quest for financial freedom?

Is no one out there making good money from trading without getting involved in something like this?
Please say there are, my trading dreams are lying in tatters here
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 1:43pm   #3
 
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

surferking started this thread
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Originally Posted by BarneyBus View Post
Cheers for this Marcus, just need to book a day off work to watch the webinar now.

From a practical point of view it would be hard to devote 4 hours a day to something like this, Im sure most of us are in the same boat... work gets in the way, so until we've all hit the big time things like this are going to be hard to take advantage of.
I still curious to know more about it though, Im particularly concerned about the comments regarding MT4 brokers not allowing scalpers to become profitable and the manipulation of the higher timeframes also make it impossible to make money long term. What are we saying here? That non of us are going make money to the level we all aspire unless we sign up to his methods? Whats your feeling after watching the webinar, is that just sales talk to get people signed up or is it genuine and someting we all need to consider in our quest for financial freedom?

Is no one out there making good money from trading without getting involved in something like this?
Please say there are, my trading dreams are lying in tatters here
All brokers trade against you, that shouldn't be a surprise by now, don't underestimate how good they are at it! This guy is a software engineer and knows the MT4 server back-end well.

I'd say as an approximate guide consider whatever your spreads are marketed to be that they will be approximately double after you add slippage and broker spread jiggery-pockery.

I mentioned this before but on targeting a 30 pip profit/stop trade a 2 pip spread is 6.6% profit for the broker so you need an edge far greater than that to beat them and they remember they hold all the cards.

That's why I prefer daily timeframe trades, on a 150pip profit/stop trade a 2 pip spread is only 1.3% profit for the broker so you can statistically make 5 times as many trades (scaled according to your money management) for the same cost in edge.

Checkout the webinar and ask the guy more about it, he's very knowledgable - although his way of winning is to beat the brokers with technology whereas mine is to avoid getting sucked into the lower timeframe without a very well tested edge and to trade strict back-tested EAs.

If you want to scalp or trade lower timeframes manually I'd strongly recommend Dukascopy (£1,000 minimum deposit), there's no simply reason to be using anyone else. Just use MT4 for your free charting and EA testing.

I don't believe he is a silver-tounged sales person - more likely he's just so good/successful/knowledgable that he's passionate about sharing the enjoyment he has from trading. To be honest I think the fees probably only just cover costs and that he probably just quite likes the company trading and having like-minded people to talk to while he does. His account size I saw on screen doesn't suggest he needs the money.

Having a look at the free webinar won't cost you anything and you'll know if it's for you from that.

The $275 for a month's (64 hours) of pro mentoring and trial of the indicator seems cheap compared to the Agora manuals we all bought. I don't think the costs will be an issue and I don't think you'll have any worries about performance, in fact I can't see how you could lose, I don't think he'd let you, he would take it quite personally I'm sure.

The main things to consider are your lifestyle/work commitments (only for the initial training in the trading room, after that you could do it any any time) and your pot - anything less than £5k in my opinion would make it difficult to make a living from. If you have over £20k you probably could do very well but remember it does require screentime so don't forget to factor that in and work out your earnings per hour.

From what I saw 100-200% per year should be easily achievable with little to no drawdown in any one day but as I keep saying, this is not set and forget, you need to factor in the screentime.

Hope that helps, let me know what you think once you've seen the webinar for yourself and do follow the threads on TulipFX and ForexFactory, people posting their daily performance screenshots on there should be very re-assuring.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 2:49pm   #4
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

once again, cheers for that Marcus,

I've signed up for the webinar on Monday 29th. Will post my thoughts afterwards
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 3:17pm   #5
 
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

surferking started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyBus View Post
once again, cheers for that Marcus,

I've signed up for the webinar on Monday 29th. Will post my thoughts afterwards
Runningdeer watched it all too, I'm sure he can share some thoughts.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 5:05pm   #6
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

Just managed to grab the last hour in the trading room,followed the trades,made a nice few pips.In and out pretty quick.Very impessive,i must admit most of it went over my head as i missed webinar yesterday but just following Nicks trades were impressive.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 5:11pm   #7
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonboysport View Post
Just managed to grab the last hour in the trading room,followed the trades,made a nice few pips.In and out pretty quick.Very impessive,i must admit most of it went over my head as i missed webinar yesterday but just following Nicks trades were impressive.
Youve signed up Jon? Or is this a free trial of some sort? Not had much time to read through everything Marcus has posted.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 5:39pm   #8
 
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Re: Orderflow trading/scalping with OrderBookFX

surferking started this thread I must admit, just the thought of being able to take money from the spreadbetting companies at will is very tempting and I can't see anything they could do to stop you other than close your account.

Apparently the trick to avoid that with is to hold trades for longer than 5 minutes to at least be able to do it for a reasonable amount of time.

Long-term the only place to trade it is Dukascopy or other true ECNs that don't take the opposite side of trades so they really do need you to keep winning, but there's no reason why you couldn't trade it on MT4 brokers other than they would not like it and would inevitable close your account for scalping too successfully.
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