Better Binary provider?

This is a discussion on Better Binary provider? within the Fixed Odds & Binary Betting forums, part of the Markets category; I agree. BetsForTraders.com does not provide a simple 'off-the-shelf' solution lke some of the others with fixed barriers and expiry ...

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Old Apr 23, 2007, 4:43pm   #15
Joined Dec 2006
I agree. BetsForTraders.com does not provide a simple 'off-the-shelf' solution lke some of the others with fixed barriers and expiry times but they offer the most flexible bets out there. It lets you create your optimal bet under a million different situations.

I called them today to ask when they will let me open a real money account. I didn't get a date but got the impression that it was soon. Does anybody have any more info on this?

NQR
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 8:12am   #16
Joined Apr 2007
riwf - you have to bear in mind that BB is part of a bigger company whose main interest is spreads. so if they saw binaries as a way in to a whole new customer base, they might try to capture it even if it wasn't profitable. that way they can stop potential customers signing up with rivals. binaries would be like a feeder school for spreads. IG have the money to run at a loss just to crush competition and maintain a strangehold which means poor prices and service.

as for betsfortraders - i think the jury is well and truly out. sure it sounds like an interesting proposition but 1) if every product is unique, there is no direct price comparision so the price you fget might be rubbish 2) with a more complicated product, it takes more work to see if the price is fair for the proposition 3) if everyone is taking slightly different products, it will be a nightmare book to run for them cos you won't get bets on both sides of any market, their risk profile will be crazy, they won't be able to hedge risk effectively (nor will we) and the outcome will be that there will be lots of bets rejected or (more likely) they give a price they will accept a bet on for every position you can create with the slidy bars BUT that is only because the price is so poor for what is proposed that their margin is huge and they can comfortably accept everything and still make money.

Because its all hidden and complicated by all the different variables for the bet and you don't see a BUY and SELL price on the same page, you don't see the MASSIVE SPREAD. I just flicked between the 3 day One Touch and No Touch on the AUS/$ and there is a 12!!!!! point spread! they haven't even gone live yet! Has anyone else spotted this?

its the flip side of the manual approval coin - if you have automatic approval then they make you pay through the nose for it. Each product may be bespoke but just like a taylored suit, you pay for the privelege.
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 9:55am   #17
Joined Dec 2006
I agree, the 1 touch / no touch spreads are a little wider than a few of the other vendors but they give you 100% control. You set your own barrier level and expiry time. Most of the others offer just one or a few expiry times which would never suit my trading agenda. I need FULL customisation and these guys offer that with bells on.

So many of their bets are unique and not offered by anyone else that I can structure multi-bet payoff profiles to perfectly reflect my market view in a way that I couldn't come close to doing with the others. Take ChoiceOdds for example, they only offer a few intraday strikes on about half a dozen markets and their only boast is that they quote the same product using two methods, fixed-odds and binary. BetsForTraders offer that bet type quoted in about 5 different ways. Big deal - it is still just a binary however you polish it.

Hedging a portfolio of risk is no more difficult for someone with millions of bets on offer than for the smaller guys with just a few. All the greeks can be amalgamated, grouped and the net exposures on different assets can be hedged by their order (delta, gamma, vega and so on). In any event I don't really care about their hedging methods.

I have just placed my 400th bet on the BetsForTraders beta site and am up 935% on my money as of now. I have also only had (yes, I record them) 6 bets rejected in volatile markets. That is 1.5%. The dealing interface, the product range and the flexibility make these guys the best 'over the counter' provider there is. I just wish they would hurry up and go live. I have written a programme which scans for arbs between them and binarybet and they come up several times a day.

As an aside, I have started systematically quoting prices both sides of the (very wide) spread on Intrade using my own models for their binary bets. Although BetsForTraders are quite obviously the best OTC bookie I am still married to the Intrade concept. Well worth a look.

Just my 2c.

NQR
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 11:09am   #18
Joined Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotQuiteRandom
I have just placed my 400th bet on the BetsForTraders beta site and am up 935% on my money as of now. NQR
1) There you have the very reason why they won't go live - their prices are rubbish.
2) You have also just fast tracked yourself to having your account closed as soon as they go live.
3) They can afford not to reject anything when there is no real money at stake.
4) You should care how they can hedge (which they can't if no one else offers their products) because unless they have someone filling both sides of a bet they are taking a risk which means that if you win, they lose - so they might start rejecting more bets or close you down.

Betsfortraders might work in an academic bubble, with lots of clients and a perfect pricing model but in the real world i think it is giong to fall very very flat.
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 11:23am   #19
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HappyArber, in response to your points:

1) Their prices are not far off fair value when running a monte carlo or feeding market implied vols & other parameters into a closed form approximation. Having a background in financial maths this was the first thing I tried. Note also that this applies to Binary bet and BOM, they are all pretty close.

2) According to their help desk they hedge and their hedging error is mandated at a maximum term under their corporate charter and supervised by their auditors. I can figure out how they do so but am really not interested beyond what I have learned. I have been assured that they do not make a loss from my gains and know this to be a perfect mathematical possibility. Call them for more information, they are very helpful.

3) I agree - we will have to monitor this when they go live.

I am doing an increasing amount of my trading and hedging using binary bets and am delighted that another serious player is entering the market. There is a real lack of product out there with only one other letting you have a decent choice as to expiry time and other parameters.

After reading your very minor contributions to this forum which only serve to knock Ladbrokes and BetsForTraders I can only assume that you are a pathetic plant by one of the other binary providers. Go home and leave this forum for traders to discuss interesting developments in the binary market place on their own. Shame on you!
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 11:32am   #20
 
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For me the betsfortraders.com is the preferred one. It has the only timeswitch bets and so much other bets that the less good small company of choiceodds and ladbrokes does not to have. Those last 2 have same software I think or they do copy eachother with not very much to offer I think.

I am beta tester for betsfortraders.com and they have given me 100 euro when they go live as gift to so much beta testing. I do not do the maths but I do bet and cfd trade for 4 years of full time with technical analysis method from points and figure. I want to see that prices stay same after the live date for them so I can trade for my money. If they do, good, if do not, that is fine, I will not be customer. Their email says it is same so I hope so because so far my beta profit has enough for my new moterbike ;-)
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 11:43am   #21
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100 euro? Hahaha, I am up to 250 quid. Not sure how they formulate the system but I think that you earn more real money for when they go live by doing more beta testing. Also, I have emailed them about 30 times with ideas, questions and comments. I told them that they should do a virtual tour and offer some other features which they are now doing.

I was also one of the participants who voted for BetsForTraders.com as the name when they sent out that first email. The interactive element of their client services is good.
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