Hi from Newbie.... few Q's

jacketpotato

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Hi All,

I am new to this forum having visited many times to enjoy all the friendly banter and advice. Thanks.

I sold my business in the UK during 2007 for a small cash / large share deal. The new company that bought my business trades on the UK AIM Market and my large share holding has all but crumbled..... ahh well :cry: Anyway, whilst all was bad in my market sector, I was in awe with some of the city traders that were making a fortune by shorting during 2008.

Having done some research I was pointed to a service entitled LS Trader, a internet subscription service run by Robert Stewart. LS Trader charges a subscription of £175pcm for trading tips and bet calculators / advice etc. Has anyone on here heard of this service or have joined. If so I would appreciate any comments you may have over the service.

I guess I would like to trade myself but it just seems such a minefield.... any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers :)
 
Hi All,

I am new to this forum having visited many times to enjoy all the friendly banter and advice. Thanks.

I sold my business in the UK during 2007 for a small cash / large share deal. The new company that bought my business trades on the UK AIM Market and my large share holding has all but crumbled..... ahh well :cry: Anyway, whilst all was bad in my market sector, I was in awe with some of the city traders that were making a fortune by shorting during 2008.

Having done some research I was pointed to a service entitled LS Trader, a internet subscription service run by Robert Stewart. LS Trader charges a subscription of £175pcm for trading tips and bet calculators / advice etc. Has anyone on here heard of this service or have joined. If so I would appreciate any comments you may have over the service.

I guess I would like to trade myself but it just seems such a minefield.... any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers :)


I have heard of this service - have you seen a record of their past performance?
 
Hi both - Robert's website claims profits in excess of 150% per year in 26 years of testing. Testing is the key word of course, real life might be somewhat different.

But just supposing he had started 26 years ago with a real $10,000 - at a return of 150% per year and re-investing all profits he would now have $222,044,604,925,031. Since the GDP of the entire planet is less than $55,000,000,000,000 I have to express a hint of doubt as to whether this performance is realistic.
 
Hi All,

I am new to this forum having visited many times to enjoy all the friendly banter and advice. Thanks.

I sold my business in the UK during 2007 for a small cash / large share deal. The new company that bought my business trades on the UK AIM Market and my large share holding has all but crumbled..... ahh well :cry: Anyway, whilst all was bad in my market sector, I was in awe with some of the city traders that were making a fortune by shorting during 2008.

Having done some research I was pointed to a service entitled LS Trader, a internet subscription service run by Robert Stewart. LS Trader charges a subscription of £175pcm for trading tips and bet calculators / advice etc. Has anyone on here heard of this service or have joined. If so I would appreciate any comments you may have over the service.

I guess I would like to trade myself but it just seems such a minefield.... any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers :)

If you could pick profitable trades would you need a mere £175 pcm to flog them to others.

A Fool and his money.....!
 

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If you could pick profitable trades would you need a mere £175 pcm to flog them to others.

A Fool and his money.....!

Neil,

Thanks for your thought provoking reply....... I guess that I always see the good in people!! You are suggesting that its just a money making scam??

You could be quite right of course, however, if he has say, 200 members, then a £35k a month income without trading is pretty damn good eh!! It could, of course, still provide him with more cash to trade with thus increasing his profits too. I must say that his claims of 1500% profits in 2008 are astonishing to say the least.

Do you really think this is too good to be true?? Are you or any other members aware of similar services??

Thanks!
 
1500% profit in 1 year isn't going to impress anyone. Its not that it isn't a great achievement, it is fantastic - thing is, it could only be done with massive risk / drawdown, and this cannot be a regular occurrence (even by the firm's own admission). What's the point of signing up for a service that can never possibly hope to repeat the great work it has done?

This marketing approach of 1500% in 2008 and 150% per year for 26 years is just big numbers for the purpose of catching the get-rich-quick novice, but the majority of us won't get rich quick in this game. I have to assume that the firm do not want more experienced eyes trawling over their system and pulling it to bits, though I understand its based on Donchian breakout, and there's nothing wrong with that in the right hands.
 
It doesn't work like that. If someone could consistently & genuinely & legally make profits of say 50% p.a. they could charge much more than £175 p.a.

One of the most well know bear raiders, Evil Kneivel is reportedly very successful. Would he ever sell or divulge his strategy, of course not. When anything is reported it is probably more likely disinformation.

Just take a sensible approach to investing. Drip feed some money into a few diversified stocks now (maybe 25% of your overall investment pot), avoiding retail, financials & property.
The companies you invest in should have a product, resource or service that is always in demand, well managed & well funded.

Short term trading is a mug's game, anyone who is successful relies on three things: Experience/knowledge, Inside information and luck.
How many of those have you got or can guarantee?
 
Short term trading is a mug's game, anyone who is successful relies on three things: Experience/knowledge, Inside information and luck.
How many of those have you got or can guarantee?
Hi raysor,
I agree with the general thrust of your post until the quoted part, above. As T2W is geared towards traders, I imagine that you didn't really expect get away with waving this red rag to us bulls (and bears) and get away with it! Suffice it to say, you are spot on when you say that successful traders need experience and knowledge, but completely wrong to suggest that they also need inside information and luck. That's total borrocks!
;)
Tim.
 
Hi raysor,
I agree with the general thrust of your post until the quoted part, above. As T2W is geared towards traders, I imagine that you didn't really expect get away with waving this red rag to us bulls (and bears) and get away with it! Suffice it to say, you are spot on when you say that successful traders need experience and knowledge, but completely wrong to suggest that they also need inside information and luck. That's total borrocks!
;)
Tim.
I was referring to all sorts of trading and investing, even the most sophisticated mathematical trading method can go wrong.
Yes I have two borrocks, neither being crystal!
 
Response from the LS Trader Team

Dear Trade2Win readers,

In response to some of the posts that we at LS Trader (Robert Stewart & Phil Seaton) have seen on this forum we thought we would make a post to clarify a few points.

Firstly, we have been trading for approximately 10 years and have an extensive background in system development and testing. We completed our research approximately 6 years ago which resulted in the system now know as the LS trader system.

This system was first traded by ourselves on my own accounts and a select group of people that we gave access to the system. It was originally released to the public under the name of The Winning Trader in January 2007. The results since launching to the public were 116.7% return in 2007 and 1504.1% in 2008. These are real results and followers of the Winning Trader system (of which there are many happy subscribers) can verify them as the signals have been emailed out every week since January 2007. These results can be seen if full by visiting Financial Spread Betting & Trading Results :: LS Trader. The archive has now been updated with a full list of the results.

The back testing results which go back over 26 years of data show a CAGR% of 165.8%. Now, as one forum member correctly pointed out, this is testing and does not mean that future results will be the same. What we can say is that since we have been trading this system, the results have been very close to the back testing results.

The reasons for this are as follows:

• The system has been vigorously tested over a long period of data incorporating 44 markets.
• To prove the robustness of the system we have added and taken away certain markets and run tests again and the results whilst obviously not always the same, are similar.
• The system, which although has been optimised, has not been curve fitted. It is easy to curve fit systems based on past data, but to ensure this is not the case we have changed the start date and end date and tested over shorter periods. The results are not markedly different.
• The system has specific and exact rules to cover all aspects and eventualities of trading and is then run over very accurate market data. This rules out any human intervention and an attempt to make the results look better than they actually are

Whilst the results of 2008 are exceptional, we have never said that these are the norm. The second best year according to the back testing results was 1987, which showed a return of 1158.8%. The point is that exceptional years can and do happen and when they occur they are a bonus. What really counts is how consistent the performance of a system is.

The secret is good performance allied with compounding. In own trading performance, we have always aimed at 100% returns per year. We believe from our experience and the back testing results of the system that this is an achievable realistic target. However, the system is actually producing average returns of 165.8% but we have lowered that slightly to say that we aim at 150% per year.

Consider the table below

Annual Growth Rate 100% 165.80%
Starting capital £10,000 £10,000
Year 1 £20,000 £26,580.0
Year 2 £40,000 £53,160.0
Year 3 £80,000 £106,320.0
Year 4 £160,000 £212,640.0
Year 5 £320,000 £425,280.0
Year 6 £640,000 £850,560.0
Year 7 £1,280,000 £1,684,540.0

As the table above shows, starting with £10,000 and compounding at 100% per year gives a return of £1.28 million in 7 years (assuming that no capital is withdrawn during the 7 years).

One forum member has posted that 2008’s returns could only be achieved with massive risk and huge drawdowns. If we had been presented with these returns that would probably have been my reaction too, but that is not the case.

In 2008 no single trade incurred risk of greater than 2% (obviously there is always the possibility of slippage but this was not really a factor as most of the markets we trade are liquid). The maximum drawdown during 2008 was 47%. Bear in mind that 2008 was the most volatile trading year in a long time and that we had huge profits on the table, so I consider this drawdown to be acceptable, especially in view of the returns.

When drawdowns of this magnitude occur, it is because profits are being given back rather than losing original starting capital. If risk per trade is at 2%, one would need a run of 23 or so losing trades right off the bat to achieve such a loss from starting equity. This has never happened in back testing and it is highly unlikely that it ever will.
Another forum member posted that short term trading is a mugs game. We could not agree more and have yet to see a day trading system that is profitable in the long term. Our system is not short term and has an average trade duration of 6-8 weeks. In 2008 we had several trades that were open for more than 100 trading days, which is 5 months or more.

This member also went on to say that you require experience, inside information and luck. We would point out that you do need experience if you are trading on your own, but if you are following a successful trader then you only need the discipline to follow the signals that you are given.

Inside information is rarely of any use as it is either wrong or already priced in to the markets. Successful traders do not rely on this (and we are primarily trading commodities and not stocks anyway).

The last factor mentioned was luck. In our opinion, luck plays little or no part in trading if you have a good system which has an edge. Consider the roulette table at a casino. You know that the house has an edge as they are paying 35 to 1 on 36 numbers and they have zero. Over a long period of time, regardless of what system you use, the house will come out in front as they have an edge.

The LS trader system also has an edge and if followed over a long period of time, this edge will become prominent and the system will therefore come out in front over time.
The only time when luck plays its part is when you start following a system. For those that started following this system in 2008 could be called lucky as they started at a great time, but over a period of time, luck will not be a factor to trading success.

Finally, we thought we would touch on why we offer this service. The reasons for this are very simple.

• We trade the signals that the system generates, so we are already doing all the research for our own accounts.
• We have reduced trading to very little human involvement and can do everything required to trade my own accounts in a couple of hours per week. Therefore providing this service gives us something to do and some interaction with other people, which we enjoy
• The markets that we trade are liquid and are not affected by other people taking the same trades
• The best place for our money is trading the system and we am very much in to achieving large returns by compounding my profits and not withdrawing trading capital. Providing this service to other subscribers for a monthly fee enables us to do this.
• Finally, there are so many systems out there that simply do not work, with people pushing day trading and short term trading system on people that have little or no chance of success in the long run, that we wanted to provide a genuine system to the marketplace that actually works.

Finally, we offer a full 60 day money back guarantee that if the system is not what we say it is or is not for you for any reason then we offer a full refund of your subscription fees paid to that point. Can’t really be any fairer than that can we?

You will also see the reviews we have received from independent websites on the testimonials page, and I recommend that you read it at Spread Betting Testimonials :: LS Trader

Lastly, we offer a free newsletter, so even if you are not totally convinced you can still subscribe to this newsletter and hear the latest news about our service. Just go to Financial Spread Betting & Online Trading System :: LS Trader and enter your name and email address on the top left of the homepage. We have also put together a free MP3 track which we talk about the LS Trader system and how it works exactly. To listen to this, click on: http://www.lstrader.co.uk/audiointro.mp3

You can also email us at [email protected] and we can assist with any other enquiries.

Kind Regards

Robert Stewart & Phil Seaton

The LS Trader Team
 
Robert and Phil - Well, its a well composed and rational response, but you still claim test profits in excess of 150% per year over 26 years. And that is without the very occasional +1500% year. I won't believe it can be done, but I can believe you could produce evidence that makes it look like it could be done.
 
Robert and Phil - Well, its a well composed and rational response, but you still claim test profits in excess of 150% per year over 26 years. And that is without the very occasional +1500% year. I won't believe it can be done, but I can believe you could produce evidence that makes it look like it could be done.

Well, I'm sorry but I don't believe it. From my experience I know people who have made LOTS of money trading in various forms and have ended up "giving most or more back". Of course there are people who have made substantial fortunes in the market and live in grand houses in the stockbroker belts, but they always, in my experience, keep their "secrets" to themselves. As I have quoted elsewhere I have a friend at the moment who has made £100k plus over the last three years trading options and gave back 2008's profit in a couple of weeks. He is still trading so it will be interesting to follow his progress in the future months/years.
I don't want to be too cynical but I still maintain that winners enjoy the three qualities I have said before.
 
I don't want to be too cynical but I still maintain that winners enjoy the three qualities I have said before.
There will always be people who insist that 2+2=5 in spite of the mountain of evidence to the contrary!
:cheesy:
 
I too have received marketing jargon for this system. The testimonials are all related because Matt Bisogno promotes quite a bit of SkyBlueKagaroo horse racing products and vice versa. I would not be too far away from saying they are all from the same publishing house so I'm dubious about that.

I suppose the proof is in the eating. For £147 (which you can get back) then surely it is worth testing? You only have to trade with a minimum bank and if I was going to find a trading tipster/system then this is short change.

It would really help if someone actually forked out the cash to test the damn thing.
I've signed into to about 4 trading forums tonight and no one anything to say apart from the people that own it!
 
I too have received marketing jargon for this system. The testimonials are all related because Matt Bisogno promotes quite a bit of SkyBlueKagaroo horse racing products and vice versa. I would not be too far away from saying they are all from the same publishing house so I'm dubious about that.

I suppose the proof is in the eating. For £147 (which you can get back) then surely it is worth testing? You only have to trade with a minimum bank and if I was going to find a trading tipster/system then this is short change.

It would really help if someone actually forked out the cash to test the damn thing.
I've signed into to about 4 trading forums tonight and no one anything to say apart from the people that own it!
Well do it then! I'll tell you now there is no such thing as a "trading system" that works.
Sorry, in fact there are; but they would not be publicised.In fact they are not systems as such, more finding anomolies. A long time ago a friend of mine had a pension fund in which you could switch, occassionaly between markets. The publicised pricing time of the US fund was 12.00 gmt, but in fact he discovered it was actually priced at about 16.00 gmt, 1 1/2 hours after Wall Street was open. So he switched the funds having a good idea how the fund was going to increase or decrease. Everytime he 'phoned the dealers he tried to speak to a different person so that they would not know he had an inside edge. Eventually they tried to stop him dealing so often, saying that the facility to switch was only for occassional use.By that time he had turned the fund into £1m+ (from about £50k) and this was about 20/30 years ago. Just think what would have happened if he had gone public with that.
 
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Hey guys,
Saw this post and decided you may be interested to know that Graham Laurie over at cashmaster.com has recently started testing LS trader and posting his results weekly (on mondays) on his blog.
Again, hes a horse racing chap but im quite good friends with him and can vouch for the authenticity of all the results he publishes. Will be good to see how he gets on with it over the next few months, is that 150% actually obtainable.
 
Hi, I have joined this service. Have been a subscriber for just over 3 weeks. Happy to post how my portfolio fares.

I have started with a bank of 10K. Each trade adviced till now has a risk of 4% of the bank. Till now 2 have hit the Stop Loss advised. So 8% real booked loss. Also today my portfolio is down about 1,200.

After reading these posts now bit unsure...

Cheers!
 
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Hey guys,
Saw this post and decided you may be interested to know that Graham Laurie over at cashmaster.com has recently started testing LS trader and posting his results weekly (on mondays) on his blog.
Again, hes a horse racing chap but im quite good friends with him and can vouch for the authenticity of all the results he publishes. Will be good to see how he gets on with it over the next few months, is that 150% actually obtainable.

Have you got the right site, cashmaster.com seems to be selling cash counting machines??:?:

Cheers!
 
Hi, I have joined this service. Have been a subscriber for just over 3 weeks. Happy to post how my portfolio fares.

I have started with a bank of 10K. Each trade adviced till now has a risk of 4% of the bank. Till now 2 have hit the Stop Loss advised. So 8% real booked loss. Also today my portfolio is down about 1,200.

After reading these posts now bit unsure...

Cheers!

Hi Bhindaas,

It's actually good to hear someone who has started using the service. Obviously trading is a long-term game but its not good your losing from the off. Did you pay the £147 subscription?

It would be really good if you can give us an update next month.

Good Luck with the venture.

Fordster
 
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