Lord Anton Kreil

This is a discussion on Lord Anton Kreil within the Educational Resources forums, part of the Commercial category; Originally Posted by cablemonster I have got to admit the case of Anton is a bizzarre one. If I recall ...

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Old Jan 11, 2013, 1:08pm   #9
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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Originally Posted by cablemonster View Post
I have got to admit the case of Anton is a bizzarre one. If I recall correctly he has golman sachs, lehman and jp morgan on his CV. It really is strange to pitch to newbies in this way. What I have learnt from some of my aquaintances who are instituional traders is that the information and tools they have at their disposal give them a considerable edge that cannot be used outside of the bank. Lets say they trade a commodity spread and have access to specific relevant flow order info, zero transaction costs you can see how they have a big edge. Also a risk manager who will remove emotion when you are unable to. I guess remove these tools and a former bank trader may struggle on the outside dunno its just bizarre like I said.
In reality, they only have a tiny edge, which is of no benefit to a private trader.

Its the size they deal in that makes it worthwhile.

The term professional means nothing:

Lower league football pros - £300 per week
Premier league £100,000.

Local golf pro - £22,000 per year
Tiger Woods - $10Mln

Not many of them are Tiger Woods or Fernando Torres.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 1:47pm   #10
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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In reality, they only have a tiny edge, which is of no benefit to a private trader.
that doesn't tally with my homework on institutional traders. one commodity trader I regularly speak to (works for large IB) say they focus on markets (Real or synthetic) where they have the greatest edge. 2 straight losing weeks and their card is already marked, back onto paper trading and increased supervision.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 3:26pm   #11
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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that doesn't tally with my homework on institutional traders. one commodity trader I regularly speak to (works for large IB) say they focus on markets (Real or synthetic) where they have the greatest edge. 2 straight losing weeks and their card is already marked, back onto paper trading and increased supervision.
But does this edge still exist if they were trading their own account from home/in private?

For example;

At his/her IB a 2% return on their £1m play nets them £20,000, but would he/she be able to do this in private? Is the same edge worthwhile on a £10k account? Taking their cut into account. In relative terms its a small edge, but financially worthwhile, hence these guys stay at the IBs because they would not be able to do this in private, as they dont have the facilities to do so.

Just something to think about?

At the end of the day, if these guys are so good that they get marked after 2 weeks, why would they stay there once they knew what they were doing? Logic says its because their financial cut from the edge (even a tiny edge) they have (at an IB) is greater than they can generate on their own in private.

Comparing institution to private is very chalk and cheese.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 3:41pm   #12
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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But does this edge still exist if they were trading their own account from home/in private?
in this case it wouldn't be as the order flow information which is shared interbank is not accessible to the public.


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Originally Posted by wallstreetwarrior87 View Post
At the end of the day, if these guys are so good that they get marked after 2 weeks, why would they stay there once they knew what they were doing? Logic says its because their financial cut from the edge (even a tiny edge) they have (at an IB) is greater than they can generate on their own in private.
yes I concur. the IB's hire in young, qualified, intelligent team players who are green. Train them up, put them into am experienced small team. Team has access to fundamental and technical analysts. Team has access to order flow. i.e. middle eastern chap calls up looking to hedge a **** load of something. Team has risk manager who keeps everyone in check, emotions don't take over. team focuses on non directional trades where they have the best edge.

if said trader leaves he is on his todd. his chances of success are clearly much higher due to his training but he still has to work his edge without the order flow info and manage his own risk.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 4:53pm   #13
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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in this case it wouldn't be as the order flow information which is shared interbank is not accessible to the public.




yes I concur. the IB's hire in young, qualified, intelligent team players who are green. Train them up, put them into am experienced small team. Team has access to fundamental and technical analysts. Team has access to order flow. i.e. middle eastern chap calls up looking to hedge a **** load of something. Team has risk manager who keeps everyone in check, emotions don't take over. team focuses on non directional trades where they have the best edge.

if said trader leaves he is on his todd. his chances of success are clearly much higher due to his training but he still has to work his edge without the order flow info and manage his own risk.
And let's not forget. Your mate at bank x gets 120k a year whether his 'trading' makes money or not.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 5:20pm   #14
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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And let's not forget. Your mate at bank x gets 120k a year whether his 'trading' makes money or not.
sure the lack of monetary pressure really helps. make no mistake though 2 losing weeks on the bounce and you will be put on sim, keep on down that route and you would be out 3 months tops.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 5:30pm   #15
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

In my view it is not possible to trade successfully as a home based trader using the same strategies as an institution and make any real money doing so. As others have said, the profit margin is too small and as such it is not viable.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 5:44am   #16
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Re: Lord Anton Kreil

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sure the lack of monetary pressure really helps. make no mistake though 2 losing weeks on the bounce and you will be put on sim, keep on down that route and you would be out 3 months tops.
Are you sure this is a bank?
I've never known an investment bank put a single person on "sim".
All I've ever seen (in the 3 top tier banks i've worked at) were desks with people, then desks with empty chairs.

My last place favoured approach was if you went down more than 3%, you were simply met by the trading floor doors (if you took a toilet break) by HR and legal and told that your stuff would be couriered home.
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