Cryptocurrencies: scams and skullduggery

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Old Dec 30, 2017, 6:58am   #46
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Here is a look from a different perspective. When we look at market cap and Bitcoin dominance we can see that there is clear distribution going on. A move out of BTC and diversification into smaller cryptos.

In the chart, "others" are represented by the white line and have moved from an average of about 10% up to 18%

The other significant beneficiary has been Ripple which now stands around 17% share of total market cap.

https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#dominance-percentage
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Old Dec 30, 2017, 9:13am   #47
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Here is a look from a different perspective. When we look at market cap and Bitcoin dominance we can see that there is clear distribution going on. A move out of BTC and diversification into smaller cryptos.

In the chart, "others" are represented by the white line and have moved from an average of about 10% up to 18%

The other significant beneficiary has been Ripple which now stands around 17% share of total market cap.

https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#dominance-percentage

its useful to know about this thanks
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Old Jan 5, 2018, 5:19pm   #48
 
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Quantt started this thread A cryptocurrency created as a parody is now worth more than $1 billion

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/04/cryp...1-billion.html
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Old Jan 5, 2018, 8:22pm   #49
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Old Jan 5, 2018, 8:45pm   #50
 
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Quantt started this thread Soon to be legal in Canada! Good thing I am auto trading, so I can get baked for breakfast :-)
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Old Jan 6, 2018, 2:57pm   #51
 
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i am confused. Lets say cryptocurrency ABC comes on the exchange and i invest £500 in six months my investment is now worth £12000. How as this been generated? and what happens if we all want to take the profit and run at the same time?
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Old Jan 6, 2018, 3:53pm   #52
 
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i am confused. Lets say cryptocurrency ABC comes on the exchange and i invest £500 in six months my investment is now worth £12000. How as this been generated? and what happens if we all want to take the profit and run at the same time?
Most likely market manipulation, spoofing, etc (not illegal, since those are not regulated) and greed and stupidity from the sheeple... Not to mention tether which is especially designed for market manipulation by the biggest exchange and you have to wonder where exactly they are getting the bitcoins/money from to print it up...

When you and everybody wants to take the profit and run, most likely the exchange you have sold your tokens on will go belly up and nobody will get anything back, because I bet, they front run, use some of the deposits to expand due to the demand, etc - again not illegal per say because they are not regulated

And they can always blame "hackers" when stuff start to crash and money to disappear... It will take only one disgruntle employee (and I bet a most of them have access to the online wallets on servers, on backups, etc) to run with some of the tokens during a market disturbance or genuine hack...

Good luck suing oversees, especially when no one will insure those things...
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 6:06pm   #53
 
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Quantt started this thread Why Bitcoin Is the Most Dangerous Global Scam in 20 Years

https://www.inc.com/linkedin/vivek-w...ek-wadhwa.html
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 9:41am   #54
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Why Bitcoin Is the Most Dangerous Global Scam in 20 Years
Hi Quantt,
This is a succinct and well written article that highlights the main issues surrounding Blockchain in general and Bitcoin in particular. Does it amount to the most dangerous global scam in 20 Years? Does it heck!

Most industries have fairly major problems - some that are seemingly insurmountable - but they carry on all the same. Give me examples I hear you cry! Certainly: take the motor industry. There have been (and remain) serious concerns about car safety. Even though just about everyone that gets in a car has either been in - or witnessed - a RTA, and thousands die in cars every year, that doesn't stop most of us from buying them and driving them. For their part, the manufacturers respond with things like seat belts, ABS breaking and air bags etc. And if the car itself doesn't kill us, then the pollution from their fossil fuel burning engines surely will. Again, the manufacturers respond by making electric cars etc. The cigarette and alcohol manufacturers are similar examples of industries beset with major issues, yet we puff away and drink ourselves into a stupor while they get to make shed loads of wonga their respective 'scams'.

Returning to the article, the problems the writer pinpoints are nothing more than teething problems that will be sorted out over time. Mere challenges for the tech developers to overcome and/or opportunities for someone else to step in and create something better. This has happened already. For example, the issues surrounding Blockchain are addressed to a large degree by switching from the 'Proof of Work' model to 'Proof of Stake'. And then there's Hashgraph which, arguably, circumvents all the problems associated with Blockchain altogether. Viz a viz Bitcoin, everyone is pretty much agreed that as it stands it's not much use as a currency - but as a store of value it works pretty well; gold 2.0 if you will. Again, the developers may try and address the coin's limitations as a currency but, even if they don't, it matters not as there are plenty of others that fill this space, e.g. Iota.

So, where does all that leave us? IMO, it may be the case that crypto prices are inflated and, certainly, there are some very dodgy coins as you've highlighted on this thread. A great many will crash and burn and the whole space will, almost certainly, look very different in a few years time. But to write off the whole industry is akin to sticking doggedly to the belief that the earth is flat at the time science proved it to be round. Or me laughing my cotton socks off 20+ years ago when the tech correspondent on the news announced that in a few short years we'd all be sending SMS texts to one another on our phones. "That'll never happen - waste of money" I said! And, just as Apple, Amazon and eBay emerged from the carnage of the dot com bubble, technologies like Blockchain or Hashgraph and crypto currencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum or Iota will dominate the space and change our lives in a way that knocks mere text messaging into a cocked hat.
Tim.
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 3:18pm   #55
 
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Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Hi Quantt,
This is a succinct and well written article that highlights the main issues surrounding Blockchain in general and Bitcoin in particular. Does it amount to the most dangerous global scam in 20 Years? Does it heck!

Most industries have fairly major problems - some that are seemingly insurmountable - but they carry on all the same. Give me examples I hear you cry! Certainly: take the motor industry. There have been (and remain) serious concerns about car safety. Even though just about everyone that gets in a car has either been in - or witnessed - a RTA, and thousands die in cars every year, that doesn't stop most of us from buying them and driving them. For their part, the manufacturers respond with things like seat belts, ABS breaking and air bags etc. And if the car itself doesn't kill us, then the pollution from their fossil fuel burning engines surely will. Again, the manufacturers respond by making electric cars etc. The cigarette and alcohol manufacturers are similar examples of industries beset with major issues, yet we puff away and drink ourselves into a stupor while they get to make shed loads of wonga their respective 'scams'.

Returning to the article, the problems the writer pinpoints are nothing more than teething problems that will be sorted out over time. Mere challenges for the tech developers to overcome and/or opportunities for someone else to step in and create something better. This has happened already. For example, the issues surrounding Blockchain are addressed to a large degree by switching from the 'Proof of Work' model to 'Proof of Stake'. And then there's Hashgraph which, arguably, circumvents all the problems associated with Blockchain altogether. Viz a viz Bitcoin, everyone is pretty much agreed that as it stands it's not much use as a currency - but as a store of value it works pretty well; gold 2.0 if you will. Again, the developers may try and address the coin's limitations as a currency but, even if they don't, it matters not as there are plenty of others that fill this space, e.g. Iota.

So, where does all that leave us? IMO, it may be the case that crypto prices are inflated and, certainly, there are some very dodgy coins as you've highlighted on this thread. A great many will crash and burn and the whole space will, almost certainly, look very different in a few years time. But to write off the whole industry is akin to sticking doggedly to the belief that the earth is flat at the time science proved it to be round. Or me laughing my cotton socks off 20+ years ago when the tech correspondent on the news announced that in a few short years we'd all be sending SMS texts to one another on our phones. "That'll never happen - waste of money" I said! And, just as Apple, Amazon and eBay emerged from the carnage of the dot com bubble, technologies like Blockchain or Hashgraph and crypto currencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum or Iota will dominate the space and change our lives in a way that knocks mere text messaging into a cocked hat.
Tim.
Thanks for the big replay, but one thing that is missing with the whole comparison between the other industries and the dot com survivors on one side and crypto tokens on the other, is that they were/are real companies with real products used by the ordinary people around the world and even then a lot of the dot com wonders did not survive (with all the government checks in place, the regulated stock exchanges, etc)...

For crypto, I challenge you and all the "believers" to name me one single token used every day by ordinary people for something else besides speculation... Like gold is used not only to trade and store value, but in electronics, medicine, art/jewelry, etc...

Or more general question: name me one product/service used every day and based on blockchain in general, all in all this is not a new technology - it is more than 10 years old database concept and if it was that great surely we should have something by now...
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 7:23pm   #56
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Hi Quantt,
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. . .For crypto, I challenge you and all the "believers" to name me one single token used every day by ordinary people for something else besides speculation... Like gold is used not only to trade and store value, but in electronics, medicine, art/jewelry, etc...
I take your point, but the reason for that is that it's not easy to get one's hands on them. That will change as and when access to cryptos is improved and they're adopted at scale. Granted, that won't happen with all of them or, even, with very many of them - but it will surely happen. Think green shield stamps or nectar points - they took a while to get established. Patience sir!

Quote:
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. . .Or more general question: name me one product/service used every day and based on blockchain in general, all in all this is not a new technology - it is more than 10 years old database concept and if it was that great surely we should have something by now...
Again, it's clearly starting to happen. Obviously, established companies will be reluctant to make a wholesale transition to Blockchain technology unless and until there's a strong economic / business case for doing so. Tech start ups are using it - but I don't know anything about them so I can't name any. But just do a Google search and blockchain is all over the net. The likes of Google and Goldman Sachs wouldn't invest in it if it had no real use or value.

I wouldn't mind betting that this time next year you will be able to answer both your own questions with ease. It's clearly happening - it's just taking time to filter through to ordinary folks in the street.
Tim.
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 7:37pm   #57
 
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Hi Quantt,

I take your point, but the reason for that is that it's not easy to get one's hands on them. That will change as and when access to cryptos is improved and they're adopted at scale. Granted, that won't happen with all of them or, even, with very many of them - but it will surely happen. Think green shield stamps or nectar points - they took a while to get established. Patience sir!


Again, it's clearly starting to happen. Obviously, established companies will be reluctant to make a wholesale transition to Blockchain technology unless and until there's a strong economic / business case for doing so. Tech start ups are using it - but I don't know anything about them so I can't name any. But just do a Google search and blockchain is all over the net. The likes of Google and Goldman Sachs wouldn't invest in it if it had no real use or value.

I wouldn't mind betting that this time next year you will be able to answer both your own questions with ease. It's clearly happening - it's just taking time to filter through to ordinary folks in the street.
Tim.
Goldman are setting up a trading desk (not blockchain based technology) and are thinking of selling derivatives- talking about the subprime products on steroids , no wonder you coin bugs are expecting another financial crisis... talking about self fulfilling prophecy :/)

Merrill and Wells for example are banning all advisors to talk to clients about bitcoin derivatives , too risky...

I accept your bet. I bet you one beer you won’t be able to name me one thing next year that you or people you know are using often and it is blockchain based tech.
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 8:05pm   #58
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. . . I accept your bet. I bet you one beer you won’t be able to name me one thing next year that you or people you know are using often and it is blockchain based tech.
That sounds fair enough to me Quantt, you're on!

Aha, now there's a great idea for a new crypto: BeerCoin!
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 11:10pm   #59
 
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Thanks for the big replay, but one thing that is missing with the whole comparison between the other industries and the dot com survivors on one side and crypto tokens on the other, is that they were/are real companies with real products used by the ordinary people around the world and even then a lot of the dot com wonders did not survive (with all the government checks in place, the regulated stock exchanges, etc)...

For crypto, I challenge you and all the "believers" to name me one single token used every day by ordinary people for something else besides speculation... Like gold is used not only to trade and store value, but in electronics, medicine, art/jewelry, etc...

Or more general question: name me one product/service used every day and based on blockchain in general, all in all this is not a new technology - it is more than 10 years old database concept and if it was that great surely we should have something by now...

Digital chips used in poker games.

Same principal. You pay monies to buy so many chips used in game. Chips have no value other than being a numerical number.

Chips gained exchanged back for cash.
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 11:44pm   #60
 
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Digital chips used in poker games.

Same principal. You pay monies to buy so many chips used in game. Chips have no value other than being a numerical number.

Chips gained exchanged back for cash.
I'll bite on your idea :-)

As a player why on Earth I would go and pay transaction fees to buy and sell chips (the fees will have to go to pay the "miners" to support the blockchain ledger - nobody will do it for free). I will just chose a company having a centralized ledger and no transaction fees instead - basically every current online casino or poker site.

As a company why, I would give control to the "miners", if someone gets more than 50% control, they can do whatever they like with the ledger - it is absolutely unnecessary risk to take for no gain... Unless you are a company selling frozen juice and change your name to blockchain to get a short term boost in the stock price, so some of the executives can cash out at the top...

As you can see in your example, those are very big problem and that's why 25 years after the blockchain was first conceptualized and almost 10 years after Satoshi implementation, there is still no use in the real world...
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